I still am waiting for something in Fahrenheit to be PROVEN to be false. Anybody can call anything ‘propoganda’… show me something Moore lied about. Please. Otherwise, shut the #$@& up about it, and accept the fact that your candidate is probably a slimball who doesn’t deserve to be rewarded with 4 more years. (How mush oil profit does any one person need?)
Who cleared the Saudis to fly out when all planes were grounded, that might be considered a lie, or
at the very lease a gross misrepresentation of the truth. You want one you got one.
Film showed video of Bush supposedly “goofing-off” at Camp David. The film editor very carefully and accidently removed the image of Tony Blair from scenes. I wouldn’t consider a weekend with the British Prime Minister as “goofing off”. This is at least dishonest if not an outright lie.
Regarding comment 4 by Abel Gallardo (thank god we finaly have a female voice). That was not a factual lie. He was playing gulf and Moore never stated that he was goofing off (besides it was used more for comidic puposes than anything else). Moore was making the point about Bush Jr. taking more vacations than any other president. This is a fact unless you belive the right wings justifacations that his vacations were “working vacations”. In that case I hope you don’t mind Bush using millions of tax dollers to move the White House to Crawford Texas. Feel free to try again but this dosen’t come close to qualifying as a lie in F911.
I’m a film student and a big fan of the documentary form. A lot of the back and forth about Michael Moore’s film concerns whether or not the film was objective or propaganda. Many people (pundits, anchors, idiots) are under the impression that Documentaries MUST be objective to be considered documentaries.
From my experience, and from what we film students are taught in film school, that is just not true.
MOST good documentaries are subjective, with the filmmaker trying to prove a point or convey an opinion through documentary evidence. Look at some great documentaries — SUPERSIZE ME, TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, HARLAN COUNTY U.S.A. — all with a definite subjective point of view. Sure, you could call them propaganda, but they are all propagandas with facts on their side.
Yes, the stupid Webster’s dictionary defines documentary films as “presenting facts objectively,” but honestly, who relies on the Webster’s dictionary to tell them how an artform works?
Andrew, my friend, Moore lied about the federal funding of the Oregon State Police as they did not have enough money to protect the Oregon coast from terrorist attacks. Moore’s people interviewed a unsuspecting Oregon State Trooper about their current financial problems regarding the State Police. The trooper was told by Moore’s crew that this interview was going to be used in a low budget documentary. It wasn’t until a few weeks later that the trooper got a call from Moore’s agent stating that he was going to be in the up and coming film of F911. The trooper was disappointed that his statements were being used against him to show that Bush and the Feds were not funding the Oregon State Police to protect our coast. The three lies here are that (1)Moore’s crew lied to the Trooper interviewed (2)The State Police are funded by and run by the state of Oregon and (3) The US coasts and waterways are protected by the US Coast Guard, not the State Police who protect the states highways and interstates. Andrew, please come back and play when you have something more interesting to talk about. Until then I would ask you nicely to take your rhetoric and more importantly your BS and channel all of the energy you put into it and do something constructive like basket weaving. Seriously, if you would be so kind as to take Senator’s Kerry and Edwards and go campaign in France to replace Chirac, I would greatly appreciate it. You would all fit in well there and I suspect the French would accept you into their ranks with welcome arms. Then your rhetoric and disfunctional thinking would be thought of as brilliant and you can appease the terrorists and erode France’s national security instead of the United States. Please do let me know when you all plan on leaving, because I will personally pay for your canoes and paddles. In other words, shut your piehole.
Follow-up on the picture of Al. Doesn’t he look like a complete moron? Not to mention that when he opens his mouth all I hear coming out is blah, blah, blah, blah. And NBC thought it would be funny if they hired him for Saturday Night Live. What a darling he turned out to be, molded into the little stooge that NBC and the Mainstream Liberal Media wanted him to become. I’m sure they are proud of this wonderful propaganda machine they’ve created. Fox is always looking to hire someone to jump onboard their network so they can have their Fair and Balanced views. Of course, Hannity would blow his lies out of the water so fast his ears would start flapping in the wind. But to me it would be entertaining to watch him squirm every night on television because he doesn’t “have a plan” like John Forbes Kerry. Can someone get a cork in here so that we can stop his mouth from overflowing with all those blahs?
Al Franken may not be the best radio voice the Left has (that would be Big Ed Schulz), but Franken’s brilliantly-written books expose the behind-the-scenes B.S. in Washington that the average Joe doesn’t get to see. And, in doing so, we see just how far the Rightards will go, to further their repressive agenda on freedom-loving Americans who would rather work at a good-paying job and have prosperity, instead of lining up for unemployment and paying $2.25/gallon for gas.
Oh and by the way, 2% of americans pay 48% of the taxes… im in that 2% and im tired of giving nearly half of everything i make to the government. Micheal Moore should be tried for treason cuz he is an asshole, im pretty sure he doesnt even believe what he says he just uses it to sell movies and books.
These arguments are really silly. I urge my liberal friends to give up trying to convince these people of anything. The difference between “liberals” and “fascists-republicans” is that we want The Constitution protected; we want fairness and justice in the world; and we do not vote party first before country. I have always first voted in terms of what is best for my country, then what is best for my community, then my gender and after that I decide party lines. I have broken party lines many times to vote for a candidate who, when swearing on stack of bibles to “uphold and protect The Constitution” actually means it. My fellow liberal (meaning honest) friends, these people have to sign loyalty agreements just to get into a Bush event. These people stand by while their fellow citizens are arrested for wearing “Civil Liberties” t-shirts. These people stand by while thousands of minority voters are threatened. Let me tell you this: I am a 9/11 survivor. I lived roughly a block from ground zero. I worked in the complex. My neighbors, my friends, even my grocery store and its employees went “poof.” Do you think that someone like me would NOT support justice? Do you think that someone like me would NOT support a war against those who attacked me/us? Ask yourselves why over 90% of 9/11 victims, widows, survivors, support Kerry? Are these people all part of some liberal conspiracy or were they all Democrats, by chance? Nope!! They are not voting party lines, they are voting for the safety of this country. You should be ashamed of yourselves for blindly allowing us to be victimized yet again and this time by our own President. And while you laugh and laugh at us liberals, the ones fighting for a 9/11 investigation, the ones fighting for the rights of all Americans to be free and safe, you are laughing at 9/11 itself. Most of America watched on T.V. Most of America was indirectly affected. Yet all of you want ownership of this event to use for your political pandering. No one who went through 9/11 (with the exception of the GOP appointed police commissioner) wants Bush in office. That does not make us laughable liberals. That makes us Americans. When you walk away from us because your President tells you so, you walk away from everything that makes us a nation. I have always fought for your rights. You have never fought for mine, not even after 9/11.
My dear Larisa,
Believe me there will never be a conjuction using the words “liberal” and “honest”.
I cannot even nearly imagine the horror and sense of loss that those of you who acutally lived throught the 9/11 tragedy must have felt and my heart most sincerely still weeps for all of you! I only saw the TV coverage here on the west coast (liberal inner sanctum) and am still hushed when I even think about it. But I welcome the remembrance when it embroils me to support the eradication of those who would commit such acts.
But I have to ask, who counted the number of survivors of that tragedy who actually stand with Kerry, knowing that he will turn the war on those who would perpetrate such acts to the United Nations? How is Kerry going to do a better job (more sensitive??) of protecting us? And how is the Constitution being upheld when the First and Second Ammendments are constantly in the crosshairs of the Liberal leadership? This kind of math is what is debilitating the liberal left. You cannot make a statistical statement that is backed by pure fact. Snippet artist, Michael Moore and the left-leaning press have you people so confused that you cannot even add and subtract.
The country came together for a brief few weeks after 9/11 until Daschel and the democratic idialogues began to stir the pot to divide the country. The vast majority of leaders on both sides of the aisle were very clear in their support of going into Afghanistan and also into Iraq, with the emminent threat to our safety under that terrorist supporting and instigating regime. Just after the notion of “Regime Change” was coined by the current adminstration, your lackeys began using that in our own politcal arena to try to discredit the office of your President in time of WAR!. Is that not “Devisive”? Do you suppose that gave notice to the enemy that we were united in our efforts to go after them before they got to our shores??? If you said, “no”, you may yet be teachable. Devisiveness and fear are the major plank of the democratic platform, and have been since the 2000 election (actually way, way before)when they instructed the Florida election workers how to disqualify as many absentee ballots from our fighting men and women who would tend to favor a more conservative Commander-in-Chief. The charges that minorities were intimidated or otherwise disenfranchised were completely discredited by an independent commision under a Democratic director. And yet, you continue to beat the same broken drum, unable to admit your transgression. The minorities have begun to figure out that it has always been the Democrats who want to keep them under the control of the ever bugeoning government with all the “helpless me” hand-out programs instead of maneuvering the economy to provide a way for them to do it for themselves. And there is nothing “fascist” about that!!
Your base is disintigrating in your face and your candidate is just getting more nervous about his deceitful and devisive campaign.
Bush by 10 points…..and fumblebug John Kerry will, no doubt challenge the outcome.
Goodnight sweet princess.
GW
Gary Who taught you to spell, Dan Quayle? The word is ‘divisive’ and your war criminal leader’s ‘brain,’ Rove, is its master. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Fascist hypocrital ignorant lemmings masquerading as conservatives: Please report to Salon.com for deprogramming/detoxification. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Gary, I found several misspelled words in your incoherent rant. However, you used one of them repeatedly. Would you like me to list the others as well?
Jonathan,
Your trivialities and small mindedness are making you miss the whole point of a very well crafted argument. Your guy is a loser and we all sympathize with your frustration. Get over it!!
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George turned a $5 trillion projected surplus into a $3 trillion projected deficit? Conservative, my a**!
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that your guy told Pat Robertson that there would be no casualties in Iraq? Or is Pat Robertson a liar? Christian my a**!
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George sent over a thousand of the bravest and finest Americans to their deaths, alienated the rest of the world, ignored his generals who told him he’d need half a million troops which resulted in massive arms depots being left unguarded and open for pillage by terrorists, and has left America more vulnerable than ever to terrorists?
Little snippets of human frailties do not diminish the human soul of a true leader. Let’s not battle over their indiscretions as boys (Kerry’s have been much more recent than that, anyway) He just does not have the heart and sould of our Hero Cowboy!
GW
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that rather than engage in honest debate, you Republicans seal yourselves off in a little bubble and brand anyone who differs with the President as traitors or unpatriotic? American my a**!
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George, the dry drunk, claims to have quit drinking in 1986 when there is a video showing him tipsy and drinking in 1992 at a wedding?
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that Colin Powell gave China the green light to invade Taiwan to appease our Red Chinese bankers? Patriotic Americans my a**!
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that the President refuses to acknowledge any mistakes when he has led this country to the brink of economic disaster, has run the most dishonest, secretive and divisive administration in history, and has spent more time on vacation than any president in history? Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Gary, I’m a long-time Libertarian. I’m a true conservative. This administration is not conservative, it’s fascist. You can worship at the altar of this war criminal if you like, but count me out.
Our young soldiers and marines are there because the believe in freedom and know that sodiers have always won it for us. There is no peace without a strong army. While my heart goes out to the many who have lost a loved one, we have always had to mourn our soldiers, but have you noticed that they keep signing up? You must be missing something (maybe between your legs). The rest of the world you speak of could not tie their shoes if we were not sending aid or have not fought, and died for their freedom to disagree with us. I have no sympathy for their loss of our approbation. Better that we cut of the undeserved aid and concentrate on that deficit that has you all knotted up, and our other social ills that will become meaningless if we let the Islamo-fascists attack us over here again.
No, Gary, our young soldiers and marines are there because they follow orders. God bless them. Nobody disputes that we should keep America’s army strong. Doesn’t it bother you that your guy has overextended and weakened our army by getting bogged down in nation-building? Doesn’t it bother you that he cut combat pay for the soldiers over there?
Gary, doesn’t it bother you that we invaded a country that didn’t have WMD and didn’t have ties to the fundamentalist islamic terrorists that threaten us while Iran and North Korea developed nuclear weapons?
Gary, open your eyes, admit you’re wrong. I’ve got dozens more … A $7 trillion blow job, Gary. You fascist lemmings have spent $7 trillion and thousands of young Americans lives for a friggin’ blow job.
Jonathon,
So you want a President who will not show up when it is time to make a decision, as Kerry has been doing for twenty years in public office? You see things from a Moore slanted view, my friend, but your passion cannot be discounted. I just wish you could slough off the cloud of deceipt the Bush-bashing Democrats have salted you with see the true heart and soul of a man who would has only the best hope for your future as a citizen of the greatest nation on earth. Kerry just doesn’t have it. Unfortunately we are left again with choosing the lesser of two evils (the way of politics in this country). I cannot choose a vietcong war hero and collaborator to lead our armed forces.
Your arguments are most intriguing, but a choice still must be made. Good luck next week. I must get to sleep. Thanks for a great round!
GW
Notice how quiet it is in here, Gary? Do you know why? Cause all of your buddies are over in Free Republic having a mass orgy where they don’t have to listen to reason. Why don’t you join them, Gary? The facts just aren’t on your side, so turn on Fox, or some nutjob radio station, then surf on over to Free Republic while your country turns into a fascist banana republic.
Gary, John Kerry volunteered for Vietnam. George Bush was too busy drinking, snorting cocaine, getting laid and paying for illegal abortions to do that.
Yes, John Kerry opposed Vietnam. So did millions of other Americans. He opposed it in large measure because Nixon had already announced that he would pull out of Vietnam and Kerry didn’t think it was fair to the soldiers over there to be the ‘last man to die for a mistake’ when it was already official US policy to withdraw.
Anyway, I see you’ve decided to take my advice and retreat to your bubble. Night Bub.
Gary, Michael Moore is a fat obnoxious slob who needs to get a shave, lose a hundred pounds, and stop putting so much spin in his documentaries. That doesn’t change the fact that a lot of what he says is true, and deeply troubling. I make my own judgments. I don’t rely on Michael Moore, John Kerry, Bill O’Reilly or anyone else to tell me how to think. That’s my last word for tonight. See ya.
Johnathan, if you believe everything you read, you have a lot to learn, but you are reading the wrong books. You believe the lies that a woman who smears everyone she writes about, and then the bitter ex relative who tells her, denies every telling her. You are another one of these people who grab on to sosmething that could be harmful to someone and stick with it, whether true or not. Not unlike Kerry. So you hang it there Bro and someday you too may run for office.
& for you #4, just like documentary doesn’t have to be facts, just the way it is put together is misleading. I don’t understand if Bush is so bad, why does the left have to make so much stuff up or mislead. Looks like if he was so bad, the truth would be bad enough.
For anyone who feels that Fahrenheit 911 contains lies or is dishonest, may I direct you to Michael Moore’s website where you can view the ENTIRE contents of “The Fahrenheit 911 Reader”, detailing every comment made in the movie and it’s source. http://www.michaelmoore.com
By the way, Micheal Moore, Columbia Pictures, Lion’s Gate Films and I would like to thank the right-wingers for over-reacting and making F911 4 or 5 times more successful than it would have been without the knee-jerk hype.
And don’t believe us liberals when it comes to criticism of the Bush camp? Check out Pat Buchanan’s latest book “Where the Right Went Wrong”, detailing the Neo-Con’s methodical and sneaky takover of the Republican Party, how Iraq was planned long before 9/11 and how much power Rove, Cheney and Rumsfled *really* have over the president. And this is coming from a REAL conservative, Pat Buchanan.
It’s just too bad that the “liberal Media” has never reported on these things (such as the Wolfowitz Doctorine, that outlines using military action to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the world)…
So, Republicans believe in smaller government, fiscal responsibility and family values, huh?
Well, so far we have the largest increase in goverment size ever, a surplus to highest deficit turn-around in record time and a statistically higher percentage of republicans having been divorced than non-republicans.
And the so-called Chritian Right? Give me a break. The Jesus I know is a liberal (read the bible): Promotes tolerance and helping the less fortunate, not defining new class barriers and screwing the middle class! Bush claims to be a born-again Christian, but I wonder what traits he would point to in himself that would indicate that this is so… Do you think Jesus would favor capital punishment and helping the rich get richer at the expense of the poor? I’m thinking…no.
If you care about the environment, personal liberties and helping others then you may be more liberal than you think. At the very least you may be a centrist.
If, on the other hand, you agree that businesses should be able to police themselves when it comes to pollution (yeah, this has worked REAL good in the past…) and that your freedoms should be dicatated and controlled by uncle sam and that poor people are there because they don’t WANT to work, then you probably are a republican. Sadly, they think nothing wrong of this depiction of themselves.
Russell is sadly on point. Very on point!
I fear for the next 4 years and the Iran situation, I mean I’m more scared about what we’ll trigger than of Iran itself.
I think it is so hilarious how republicans in general, but exspecially neo-con ideolouges try to twist the undeniable facts. JD and Bonnie uses factually based and witty comebacks to counter facts such as Bush’s record on Iraq, the economy, and the enviroment. “Don’t believe everything you read in books” Bonnie cries. (probably because reading anything but Sean Hannity would prove her wrong) And as for JD, I am very sure that Jonathan is not your “bud”, and if your only comeback to all of the facts he produces it “quit spouting Micheal Moore rhetoric” and “it won’t fly here bud”, you are truly flailing. All of the facts Jonathan produced are true, (the cocaine one is probably true, with much evidence, but I will not say it is absolutely true), and all you neo-cons can do nothing but flee to your EIB radio network to have pill-popping Rush Limbaugh reinforce your own ignorant world view. As to MIcheal Moore, he is not a democrat, and certainly not unbiased. Micheal Moore’s objective is to criticize those in power. He did it to Clinton and the congree in his best-seller “Stupid White Men”. He said on NPR (a station to intellectually stimulating and unbiased that you ditto-heads wouldn’t be able to handle it) that if John Kerry were to be elected he would keep his camera on him too. You should not dismiss his facts because he doesn’t present your view. Also, I find it very amusing that for over a decade conservatives dominated (and do to this day) am radio, with non stop rants from their political lapdogs (see Rush Limbaugh) nobody would claim these men wer fair and objective observers of the news. But the second Micheal Moore comes out with something, conservatives are all “bu…bu…but it’s not fair and balanced!” Get real, very few things are objective, and if all you can do to comeback is to wave a flag in my face while your president takes away more and more of your civil liberties to give you the illusion of safety, then you are a lost cause.1
I think that you liberals who try to claim superiority in the facts are only deceiving yourselves. You have made some interesting cases but most if not all are grounded in assumptions and distortion of the truth. For example someone mentioned that Republicans are taking away civil liberties. Which ones? I don’t know of any that I have lost. If any rights are taken away it typically comes from the leftist in the means of property rights and ownership. Your liberal policies are short sighted and not meant to empower people but to give them excuses. If you want to debate lets have at it.
Campbell, It is proven that you libs don’t want facts. You ignore them. You are not interested in the truth. Some of you call our President a liar. That is the way you handle facts. As for the radio - I don’t listen to it, but from all I have heard the liberal radio station, could not get anyone to listen to it and is in serious trouble. Now, I won’t ask you if that is true, even tho I don’t know it to be a fact, because, you probably don’t know either - but will deny it. You and Ol’ Michael M. take things out of context and still don’t get you man elected. I have as many liberties as I have always had. But you know, I would be willing to give up a few to keep this country safe. We live in a different time and if liberals are not progressive enough to go with the change, You will continue to be bitter losers.
Oh! Another thing Campbell. He is my president just as he is yours if you are an American, just as Clinton was my president just as was yours. We only have one President at a time, and he is President George W. Bush.! Like it or not!
How about the right to not have you library records realeased to the government on their demand. I am willing to give up some of my civil liberties though. I’d trade in the right to bear arms for free parking any day.
Wow, Julian ,how deep! Where do you need parking? and what arms do you bear? I don’t bear arms. I would probably shoot myself in the foot. But for those who do, they don’t want to give up that right which was gauranteed to them.
I want universal free parking. Don’t you think that our founding fathers assumed that free parking was a basic right. They didn’t charge to park horses did they?
I would not want to take away the second amendment; “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” But are we really using our arms to ensure that our Militia is well-regulated, as the amendment specifies?
I don’t think free parking is anything they ever thought about. I don’t think they ever thought that someone would want GOD removed from everything that has to do with the government. It is just like before O’Hair, no one ever thought we would take prayers out of our schools. Who would think there would be anyone who could carry it that far. Who, 10 years ago, ever thought we would have terroism on our soil? A lot of us were niave and still are.
R. Manning Says: July 2nd, 2004 at 5:49 am
I still am waiting for something in Fahrenheit to be PROVEN to be false. Anybody can call anything ‘propoganda’… show me something Moore lied about. Please. Otherwise, shut the #$@& up about it, and accept the fact that your candidate is probably a slimball who doesn’t deserve to be rewarded with 4 more years. (How mush oil profit does any one person need?)
Emory Says: July 2nd, 2004 at 6:11 am
I haven’t seen Farenheit 911. But, not lying and being objective are 2 different things.
kondor Says: July 18th, 2004 at 2:49 pm
Who cleared the Saudis to fly out when all planes were grounded, that might be considered a lie, or
at the very lease a gross misrepresentation of the truth. You want one you got one.
Abel Gallardo Says: August 3rd, 2004 at 5:17 am
Film showed video of Bush supposedly “goofing-off” at Camp David. The film editor very carefully and accidently removed the image of Tony Blair from scenes. I wouldn’t consider a weekend with the British Prime Minister as “goofing off”. This is at least dishonest if not an outright lie.
That one came to mind. There’s another.
Andrew Says: August 3rd, 2004 at 5:48 pm
Regarding comment 4 by Abel Gallardo (thank god we finaly have a female voice). That was not a factual lie. He was playing gulf and Moore never stated that he was goofing off (besides it was used more for comidic puposes than anything else). Moore was making the point about Bush Jr. taking more vacations than any other president. This is a fact unless you belive the right wings justifacations that his vacations were “working vacations”. In that case I hope you don’t mind Bush using millions of tax dollers to move the White House to Crawford Texas. Feel free to try again but this dosen’t come close to qualifying as a lie in F911.
Emory Says: August 3rd, 2004 at 6:35 pm
Playing Gulf looks like a freudian slip.
Fodsnob Says: September 6th, 2004 at 9:19 pm
I’m a film student and a big fan of the documentary form. A lot of the back and forth about Michael Moore’s film concerns whether or not the film was objective or propaganda. Many people (pundits, anchors, idiots) are under the impression that Documentaries MUST be objective to be considered documentaries.
From my experience, and from what we film students are taught in film school, that is just not true.
MOST good documentaries are subjective, with the filmmaker trying to prove a point or convey an opinion through documentary evidence. Look at some great documentaries — SUPERSIZE ME, TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, HARLAN COUNTY U.S.A. — all with a definite subjective point of view. Sure, you could call them propaganda, but they are all propagandas with facts on their side.
Yes, the stupid Webster’s dictionary defines documentary films as “presenting facts objectively,” but honestly, who relies on the Webster’s dictionary to tell them how an artform works?
Yes, Michael Moore’s film is subjective.
And yes, Michael Moore’s film is a documentary.
Killjoy Says: September 30th, 2004 at 6:27 pm
Anyone dismissing Webster’s Dictionary as ’stupid’ immediately loses all credibility. Another delusional leftist.
A true documentary presumes the audiences’ intelligence, thus allowing the viewer to arrive at their own conclusions.
Vast Right Wing Conspirator Says: October 10th, 2004 at 8:59 am
Andrew, my friend, Moore lied about the federal funding of the Oregon State Police as they did not have enough money to protect the Oregon coast from terrorist attacks. Moore’s people interviewed a unsuspecting Oregon State Trooper about their current financial problems regarding the State Police. The trooper was told by Moore’s crew that this interview was going to be used in a low budget documentary. It wasn’t until a few weeks later that the trooper got a call from Moore’s agent stating that he was going to be in the up and coming film of F911. The trooper was disappointed that his statements were being used against him to show that Bush and the Feds were not funding the Oregon State Police to protect our coast. The three lies here are that (1)Moore’s crew lied to the Trooper interviewed (2)The State Police are funded by and run by the state of Oregon and (3) The US coasts and waterways are protected by the US Coast Guard, not the State Police who protect the states highways and interstates. Andrew, please come back and play when you have something more interesting to talk about. Until then I would ask you nicely to take your rhetoric and more importantly your BS and channel all of the energy you put into it and do something constructive like basket weaving. Seriously, if you would be so kind as to take Senator’s Kerry and Edwards and go campaign in France to replace Chirac, I would greatly appreciate it. You would all fit in well there and I suspect the French would accept you into their ranks with welcome arms. Then your rhetoric and disfunctional thinking would be thought of as brilliant and you can appease the terrorists and erode France’s national security instead of the United States. Please do let me know when you all plan on leaving, because I will personally pay for your canoes and paddles. In other words, shut your piehole.
Vast Right Wing Conspirator Says: October 10th, 2004 at 9:35 am
Follow-up on the picture of Al. Doesn’t he look like a complete moron? Not to mention that when he opens his mouth all I hear coming out is blah, blah, blah, blah. And NBC thought it would be funny if they hired him for Saturday Night Live. What a darling he turned out to be, molded into the little stooge that NBC and the Mainstream Liberal Media wanted him to become. I’m sure they are proud of this wonderful propaganda machine they’ve created. Fox is always looking to hire someone to jump onboard their network so they can have their Fair and Balanced views. Of course, Hannity would blow his lies out of the water so fast his ears would start flapping in the wind. But to me it would be entertaining to watch him squirm every night on television because he doesn’t “have a plan” like John Forbes Kerry. Can someone get a cork in here so that we can stop his mouth from overflowing with all those blahs?
Proud Democrat Says: October 12th, 2004 at 6:47 am
Al Franken may not be the best radio voice the Left has (that would be Big Ed Schulz), but Franken’s brilliantly-written books expose the behind-the-scenes B.S. in Washington that the average Joe doesn’t get to see. And, in doing so, we see just how far the Rightards will go, to further their repressive agenda on freedom-loving Americans who would rather work at a good-paying job and have prosperity, instead of lining up for unemployment and paying $2.25/gallon for gas.
draco Says: October 19th, 2004 at 8:38 am
http://www.fahrenhype911.com/index.php
it’s all here ladies….
Brooks Says: October 26th, 2004 at 10:42 pm
I wanna know why liberals are going to a site called http://www.laughatliberals.com are they that stupid
Oh and by the way, 2% of americans pay 48% of the taxes… im in that 2% and im tired of giving nearly half of everything i make to the government. Micheal Moore should be tried for treason cuz he is an asshole, im pretty sure he doesnt even believe what he says he just uses it to sell movies and books.
Larisa Says: October 29th, 2004 at 7:33 am
These arguments are really silly. I urge my liberal friends to give up trying to convince these people of anything. The difference between “liberals” and “fascists-republicans” is that we want The Constitution protected; we want fairness and justice in the world; and we do not vote party first before country. I have always first voted in terms of what is best for my country, then what is best for my community, then my gender and after that I decide party lines. I have broken party lines many times to vote for a candidate who, when swearing on stack of bibles to “uphold and protect The Constitution” actually means it. My fellow liberal (meaning honest) friends, these people have to sign loyalty agreements just to get into a Bush event. These people stand by while their fellow citizens are arrested for wearing “Civil Liberties” t-shirts. These people stand by while thousands of minority voters are threatened. Let me tell you this: I am a 9/11 survivor. I lived roughly a block from ground zero. I worked in the complex. My neighbors, my friends, even my grocery store and its employees went “poof.” Do you think that someone like me would NOT support justice? Do you think that someone like me would NOT support a war against those who attacked me/us? Ask yourselves why over 90% of 9/11 victims, widows, survivors, support Kerry? Are these people all part of some liberal conspiracy or were they all Democrats, by chance? Nope!! They are not voting party lines, they are voting for the safety of this country. You should be ashamed of yourselves for blindly allowing us to be victimized yet again and this time by our own President. And while you laugh and laugh at us liberals, the ones fighting for a 9/11 investigation, the ones fighting for the rights of all Americans to be free and safe, you are laughing at 9/11 itself. Most of America watched on T.V. Most of America was indirectly affected. Yet all of you want ownership of this event to use for your political pandering. No one who went through 9/11 (with the exception of the GOP appointed police commissioner) wants Bush in office. That does not make us laughable liberals. That makes us Americans. When you walk away from us because your President tells you so, you walk away from everything that makes us a nation. I have always fought for your rights. You have never fought for mine, not even after 9/11.
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:03 am
So do all you Republican wingnuts agree with Rudy Giuliani that the disaster in Iraq is the troops’ fault?
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:36 am
My dear Larisa,
Believe me there will never be a conjuction using the words “liberal” and “honest”.
I cannot even nearly imagine the horror and sense of loss that those of you who acutally lived throught the 9/11 tragedy must have felt and my heart most sincerely still weeps for all of you! I only saw the TV coverage here on the west coast (liberal inner sanctum) and am still hushed when I even think about it. But I welcome the remembrance when it embroils me to support the eradication of those who would commit such acts.
But I have to ask, who counted the number of survivors of that tragedy who actually stand with Kerry, knowing that he will turn the war on those who would perpetrate such acts to the United Nations? How is Kerry going to do a better job (more sensitive??) of protecting us? And how is the Constitution being upheld when the First and Second Ammendments are constantly in the crosshairs of the Liberal leadership? This kind of math is what is debilitating the liberal left. You cannot make a statistical statement that is backed by pure fact. Snippet artist, Michael Moore and the left-leaning press have you people so confused that you cannot even add and subtract.
The country came together for a brief few weeks after 9/11 until Daschel and the democratic idialogues began to stir the pot to divide the country. The vast majority of leaders on both sides of the aisle were very clear in their support of going into Afghanistan and also into Iraq, with the emminent threat to our safety under that terrorist supporting and instigating regime. Just after the notion of “Regime Change” was coined by the current adminstration, your lackeys began using that in our own politcal arena to try to discredit the office of your President in time of WAR!. Is that not “Devisive”? Do you suppose that gave notice to the enemy that we were united in our efforts to go after them before they got to our shores??? If you said, “no”, you may yet be teachable. Devisiveness and fear are the major plank of the democratic platform, and have been since the 2000 election (actually way, way before)when they instructed the Florida election workers how to disqualify as many absentee ballots from our fighting men and women who would tend to favor a more conservative Commander-in-Chief. The charges that minorities were intimidated or otherwise disenfranchised were completely discredited by an independent commision under a Democratic director. And yet, you continue to beat the same broken drum, unable to admit your transgression. The minorities have begun to figure out that it has always been the Democrats who want to keep them under the control of the ever bugeoning government with all the “helpless me” hand-out programs instead of maneuvering the economy to provide a way for them to do it for themselves. And there is nothing “fascist” about that!!
Your base is disintigrating in your face and your candidate is just getting more nervous about his deceitful and devisive campaign.
Bush by 10 points…..and fumblebug John Kerry will, no doubt challenge the outcome.
Goodnight sweet princess.
GW
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:40 am
Gary Who taught you to spell, Dan Quayle? The word is ‘divisive’ and your war criminal leader’s ‘brain,’ Rove, is its master. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:44 am
Fascist hypocrital ignorant lemmings masquerading as conservatives: Please report to Salon.com for deprogramming/detoxification. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:44 am
Jonny Boy————-you found a whole misspelled word!?? One attaboy for you.
GW
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:49 am
Gary, I found several misspelled words in your incoherent rant. However, you used one of them repeatedly. Would you like me to list the others as well?
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:53 am
So anyway, Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George paid his girlfriend to have an illegal abortion in 1971 when he was 25?
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:54 am
Jonathan,
Your trivialities and small mindedness are making you miss the whole point of a very well crafted argument. Your guy is a loser and we all sympathize with your frustration. Get over it!!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:54 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George turned a $5 trillion projected surplus into a $3 trillion projected deficit? Conservative, my a**!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:55 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that your guy told Pat Robertson that there would be no casualties in Iraq? Or is Pat Robertson a liar? Christian my a**!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:57 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George sent over a thousand of the bravest and finest Americans to their deaths, alienated the rest of the world, ignored his generals who told him he’d need half a million troops which resulted in massive arms depots being left unguarded and open for pillage by terrorists, and has left America more vulnerable than ever to terrorists?
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:58 am
Little snippets of human frailties do not diminish the human soul of a true leader. Let’s not battle over their indiscretions as boys (Kerry’s have been much more recent than that, anyway) He just does not have the heart and sould of our Hero Cowboy!
GW
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:58 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that rather than engage in honest debate, you Republicans seal yourselves off in a little bubble and brand anyone who differs with the President as traitors or unpatriotic? American my a**!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 8:59 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that King George, the dry drunk, claims to have quit drinking in 1986 when there is a video showing him tipsy and drinking in 1992 at a wedding?
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that Colin Powell gave China the green light to invade Taiwan to appease our Red Chinese bankers? Patriotic Americans my a**!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:02 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that the President refuses to acknowledge any mistakes when he has led this country to the brink of economic disaster, has run the most dishonest, secretive and divisive administration in history, and has spent more time on vacation than any president in history? Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:03 am
Gary, I’m a long-time Libertarian. I’m a true conservative. This administration is not conservative, it’s fascist. You can worship at the altar of this war criminal if you like, but count me out.
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:05 am
Our young soldiers and marines are there because the believe in freedom and know that sodiers have always won it for us. There is no peace without a strong army. While my heart goes out to the many who have lost a loved one, we have always had to mourn our soldiers, but have you noticed that they keep signing up? You must be missing something (maybe between your legs). The rest of the world you speak of could not tie their shoes if we were not sending aid or have not fought, and died for their freedom to disagree with us. I have no sympathy for their loss of our approbation. Better that we cut of the undeserved aid and concentrate on that deficit that has you all knotted up, and our other social ills that will become meaningless if we let the Islamo-fascists attack us over here again.
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:09 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you in the slightest that your guy supports gay civil unions? Or is that why you do support him?
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:11 am
No, Gary, our young soldiers and marines are there because they follow orders. God bless them. Nobody disputes that we should keep America’s army strong. Doesn’t it bother you that your guy has overextended and weakened our army by getting bogged down in nation-building? Doesn’t it bother you that he cut combat pay for the soldiers over there?
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:12 am
Gary, doesn’t it bother you that we invaded a country that didn’t have WMD and didn’t have ties to the fundamentalist islamic terrorists that threaten us while Iran and North Korea developed nuclear weapons?
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:15 am
Gary, open your eyes, admit you’re wrong. I’ve got dozens more … A $7 trillion blow job, Gary. You fascist lemmings have spent $7 trillion and thousands of young Americans lives for a friggin’ blow job.
Gary Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:15 am
Jonathon,
So you want a President who will not show up when it is time to make a decision, as Kerry has been doing for twenty years in public office? You see things from a Moore slanted view, my friend, but your passion cannot be discounted. I just wish you could slough off the cloud of deceipt the Bush-bashing Democrats have salted you with see the true heart and soul of a man who would has only the best hope for your future as a citizen of the greatest nation on earth. Kerry just doesn’t have it. Unfortunately we are left again with choosing the lesser of two evils (the way of politics in this country). I cannot choose a vietcong war hero and collaborator to lead our armed forces.
Your arguments are most intriguing, but a choice still must be made. Good luck next week. I must get to sleep. Thanks for a great round!
GW
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:18 am
Notice how quiet it is in here, Gary? Do you know why? Cause all of your buddies are over in Free Republic having a mass orgy where they don’t have to listen to reason. Why don’t you join them, Gary? The facts just aren’t on your side, so turn on Fox, or some nutjob radio station, then surf on over to Free Republic while your country turns into a fascist banana republic.
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:21 am
Gary, John Kerry volunteered for Vietnam. George Bush was too busy drinking, snorting cocaine, getting laid and paying for illegal abortions to do that.
Yes, John Kerry opposed Vietnam. So did millions of other Americans. He opposed it in large measure because Nixon had already announced that he would pull out of Vietnam and Kerry didn’t think it was fair to the soldiers over there to be the ‘last man to die for a mistake’ when it was already official US policy to withdraw.
Anyway, I see you’ve decided to take my advice and retreat to your bubble. Night Bub.
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 29th, 2004 at 9:31 am
Gary, Michael Moore is a fat obnoxious slob who needs to get a shave, lose a hundred pounds, and stop putting so much spin in his documentaries. That doesn’t change the fact that a lot of what he says is true, and deeply troubling. I make my own judgments. I don’t rely on Michael Moore, John Kerry, Bill O’Reilly or anyone else to tell me how to think. That’s my last word for tonight. See ya.
JD Says: October 29th, 2004 at 1:29 pm
Fergy needs to get a life. I can’t believe anybody would be stupid enough to come here and spout that Michael Moore rhetoric. It won’t fly here, bud.
bonniem Says: October 29th, 2004 at 3:52 pm
Johnathan, if you believe everything you read, you have a lot to learn, but you are reading the wrong books. You believe the lies that a woman who smears everyone she writes about, and then the bitter ex relative who tells her, denies every telling her. You are another one of these people who grab on to sosmething that could be harmful to someone and stick with it, whether true or not. Not unlike Kerry. So you hang it there Bro and someday you too may run for office.
bonnie Says: October 29th, 2004 at 3:55 pm
& for you #4, just like documentary doesn’t have to be facts, just the way it is put together is misleading. I don’t understand if Bush is so bad, why does the left have to make so much stuff up or mislead. Looks like if he was so bad, the truth would be bad enough.
Russell Says: November 24th, 2004 at 6:56 am
For anyone who feels that Fahrenheit 911 contains lies or is dishonest, may I direct you to Michael Moore’s website where you can view the ENTIRE contents of “The Fahrenheit 911 Reader”, detailing every comment made in the movie and it’s source. http://www.michaelmoore.com
By the way, Micheal Moore, Columbia Pictures, Lion’s Gate Films and I would like to thank the right-wingers for over-reacting and making F911 4 or 5 times more successful than it would have been without the knee-jerk hype.
‘preciate it!
Russell
Russell Says: November 24th, 2004 at 7:05 am
And don’t believe us liberals when it comes to criticism of the Bush camp? Check out Pat Buchanan’s latest book “Where the Right Went Wrong”, detailing the Neo-Con’s methodical and sneaky takover of the Republican Party, how Iraq was planned long before 9/11 and how much power Rove, Cheney and Rumsfled *really* have over the president. And this is coming from a REAL conservative, Pat Buchanan.
It’s just too bad that the “liberal Media” has never reported on these things (such as the Wolfowitz Doctorine, that outlines using military action to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the world)…
Russell
p.s. Ann Coulter is Satan’s ho!
Russell Says: November 24th, 2004 at 7:15 am
So, Republicans believe in smaller government, fiscal responsibility and family values, huh?
Well, so far we have the largest increase in goverment size ever, a surplus to highest deficit turn-around in record time and a statistically higher percentage of republicans having been divorced than non-republicans.
And the so-called Chritian Right? Give me a break. The Jesus I know is a liberal (read the bible): Promotes tolerance and helping the less fortunate, not defining new class barriers and screwing the middle class! Bush claims to be a born-again Christian, but I wonder what traits he would point to in himself that would indicate that this is so… Do you think Jesus would favor capital punishment and helping the rich get richer at the expense of the poor? I’m thinking…no.
Russell
Russell Says: November 24th, 2004 at 7:20 am
If you care about the environment, personal liberties and helping others then you may be more liberal than you think. At the very least you may be a centrist.
If, on the other hand, you agree that businesses should be able to police themselves when it comes to pollution (yeah, this has worked REAL good in the past…) and that your freedoms should be dicatated and controlled by uncle sam and that poor people are there because they don’t WANT to work, then you probably are a republican. Sadly, they think nothing wrong of this depiction of themselves.
Russell
Republican no more Says: November 24th, 2004 at 10:46 pm
Russell is sadly on point. Very on point!
I fear for the next 4 years and the Iran situation, I mean I’m more scared about what we’ll trigger than of Iran itself.
Campbell Says: December 18th, 2004 at 6:00 pm
I think it is so hilarious how republicans in general, but exspecially neo-con ideolouges try to twist the undeniable facts. JD and Bonnie uses factually based and witty comebacks to counter facts such as Bush’s record on Iraq, the economy, and the enviroment. “Don’t believe everything you read in books” Bonnie cries. (probably because reading anything but Sean Hannity would prove her wrong) And as for JD, I am very sure that Jonathan is not your “bud”, and if your only comeback to all of the facts he produces it “quit spouting Micheal Moore rhetoric” and “it won’t fly here bud”, you are truly flailing. All of the facts Jonathan produced are true, (the cocaine one is probably true, with much evidence, but I will not say it is absolutely true), and all you neo-cons can do nothing but flee to your EIB radio network to have pill-popping Rush Limbaugh reinforce your own ignorant world view. As to MIcheal Moore, he is not a democrat, and certainly not unbiased. Micheal Moore’s objective is to criticize those in power. He did it to Clinton and the congree in his best-seller “Stupid White Men”. He said on NPR (a station to intellectually stimulating and unbiased that you ditto-heads wouldn’t be able to handle it) that if John Kerry were to be elected he would keep his camera on him too. You should not dismiss his facts because he doesn’t present your view. Also, I find it very amusing that for over a decade conservatives dominated (and do to this day) am radio, with non stop rants from their political lapdogs (see Rush Limbaugh) nobody would claim these men wer fair and objective observers of the news. But the second Micheal Moore comes out with something, conservatives are all “bu…bu…but it’s not fair and balanced!” Get real, very few things are objective, and if all you can do to comeback is to wave a flag in my face while your president takes away more and more of your civil liberties to give you the illusion of safety, then you are a lost cause.1
Privateer Says: January 21st, 2005 at 6:32 pm
I think that you liberals who try to claim superiority in the facts are only deceiving yourselves. You have made some interesting cases but most if not all are grounded in assumptions and distortion of the truth. For example someone mentioned that Republicans are taking away civil liberties. Which ones? I don’t know of any that I have lost. If any rights are taken away it typically comes from the leftist in the means of property rights and ownership. Your liberal policies are short sighted and not meant to empower people but to give them excuses. If you want to debate lets have at it.
BonnieM Says: January 21st, 2005 at 7:54 pm
Campbell, It is proven that you libs don’t want facts. You ignore them. You are not interested in the truth. Some of you call our President a liar. That is the way you handle facts. As for the radio - I don’t listen to it, but from all I have heard the liberal radio station, could not get anyone to listen to it and is in serious trouble. Now, I won’t ask you if that is true, even tho I don’t know it to be a fact, because, you probably don’t know either - but will deny it. You and Ol’ Michael M. take things out of context and still don’t get you man elected. I have as many liberties as I have always had. But you know, I would be willing to give up a few to keep this country safe. We live in a different time and if liberals are not progressive enough to go with the change, You will continue to be bitter losers.
BonnieM Says: January 21st, 2005 at 8:00 pm
Oh! Another thing Campbell. He is my president just as he is yours if you are an American, just as Clinton was my president just as was yours. We only have one President at a time, and he is President George W. Bush.! Like it or not!
Julian Says: January 21st, 2005 at 8:06 pm
How about the right to not have you library records realeased to the government on their demand. I am willing to give up some of my civil liberties though. I’d trade in the right to bear arms for free parking any day.
BonnieM Says: January 21st, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Wow, Julian ,how deep! Where do you need parking? and what arms do you bear? I don’t bear arms. I would probably shoot myself in the foot. But for those who do, they don’t want to give up that right which was gauranteed to them.
Julian Says: January 21st, 2005 at 8:55 pm
I want universal free parking. Don’t you think that our founding fathers assumed that free parking was a basic right. They didn’t charge to park horses did they?
Julian Says: January 21st, 2005 at 9:12 pm
I would not want to take away the second amendment; “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” But are we really using our arms to ensure that our Militia is well-regulated, as the amendment specifies?
Julian Says: January 21st, 2005 at 10:18 pm
Did anyone notice that Bush did not mention the word Iraq in his speech yesterday?
BonnieM Says: January 21st, 2005 at 11:48 pm
I don’t think free parking is anything they ever thought about. I don’t think they ever thought that someone would want GOD removed from everything that has to do with the government. It is just like before O’Hair, no one ever thought we would take prayers out of our schools. Who would think there would be anyone who could carry it that far. Who, 10 years ago, ever thought we would have terroism on our soil? A lot of us were niave and still are.
P.E.T.A. pocket Says: August 3rd, 2005 at 6:43 pm
HEY FERGY: I noticed you’ve called Dubya a war criminal several times. What war crimes has he committed?