Michael Moore
Disclaimer: I do not care for Michael Moore as a person, his methods, or most of his views, but he is “entitled.”
However, let’s call a spade a dirty shovel. His movies are NOT documentaries. Definitions from the American Heritage Dictionary:
Documentary: Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film. A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.
Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause.
I wish that everyone would call his work what it is. It is effective propaganda. Furthermore, his work with which I am familiar contains things that are staged, out of context, misleading, and simply wrong, in some cases. It’s too bad that “believers” of his, who are so one-sided are so often not aware of the extreme twist they are subjected to, believing as fact things that may not be, or believing things that are certainly not as bad or as good as presented.
End of editorial, blog, rant, whatever.
JG Says: June 28th, 2004 at 9:56 pm
Great critique of the movie here:
slate.msn.com/
id/2102723
Emory Says: June 29th, 2004 at 6:20 pm
Well said. Michael Moore seems to be hijacking a great term.
Nathan Grisham Says: June 30th, 2004 at 7:11 am
While I agree that Michael Moore does nothing more than present these biased half-truths, is it really any worse than the mainstream media? All he is really doing is playing the same game, only he provides the information that isn’t usually given by AP or any of the other major news sources.
The trouble here is that like any piece of information, the receivers _should_ feel obligated to do a little fact checking to make sure the information is valid and complete.
Nathan
zack Says: June 30th, 2004 at 3:35 pm
Nathan: In a perfect world you’re right. If everybody who watched moore’s films went out and did the research, there would be no problem (and moore would be homeless). Unfortunately, they don’t. People like you and I are able to distinguish between fact and propaganda, or at least be skeptical until we can get the facts. The most impressionable minds out there are the very people who are rushing out to see these films. A good example would be the movie “JFK”. A great movie. So good, in fact, that it’s impossible to tell what is fact and what is fiction. BUT! “JFK” is called a MOVIE. Michael moore calls his film a DOCUMENTARY! That, by definition, requires nothing but DOCUMENTED FACTS be used. Moore doesn’t even bother to include a disclaimer.
herb Says: July 6th, 2004 at 2:15 pm
I find it interesting to hear complaints about Moore’s film playing fast and loose with the facts from the supporters of our current administration. At least Mr Moore is only a private individual doing it with a movie and not not the leader of a nation doing the same thing to convince said nation to support his diversion of resources from the fight against terrorism to settle some unfinished family business. If Mr. Moore is only half as effective as the administration was in its “use” of the facts then there will probably be a change at the top come next January. After all, over 50% of the people in this country still believe Saddam had something to do with 911. That was damned sffective if you ask me.
Jo Jo Says: July 7th, 2004 at 1:54 pm
“Minds are like parachutes they only work when open”. Well I see here on this forum alot of parachutes are closed. No I am not a liberal either. Just wise to the world and know Bush is a idiot, that he had a cocaine problem, was a drunk, and it took years for him to grow up, that my dear people here, came from his own Father’s mouth. Yes I loss someone at the world trade center and Micheal Moore’s views are right on track.
Buck Says: July 7th, 2004 at 4:22 pm
Jo Jo is either a liar or an idiot! You are a liberal Jo Jo. No question about it. Who else but a liberal would say unequivically that Bush is an idiot, Michael Moore is right on track and then tell me I need to have an open mind. It’s typical liberal hypocracy. George Bush has a Harvard MBA…Harvard. They don’t give those away. George Bush IS the President of the United States…Yeah, he’s a real dumb ass. And since you, Jo Jo, are so convinced Michael Moore is right on track, You’re mind must be CLOSED to the outright lies he’s told and factual errors made in his movie, all of which have been well documented. Furthermore, Jo Jo, We all lost someone or something at the world trade center, but only some of us are willing to fight to acheive honor and justice for what was taken from us.
David Says: July 21st, 2004 at 4:30 am
You are right Harvard does not give away MBAs, they sell them.
Maddox Says: July 25th, 2004 at 9:53 am
Michael Moore is the new satan.
Fodsnob Says: September 9th, 2004 at 9:09 am
Documentary films do not have to ONLY use documentary evidence, people. They are opinions. Live with it.
zack Says: September 10th, 2004 at 6:53 pm
Oh, ok. I guess that’s where the name DOCUMENTORY comes from: “people’s opinions”.
zoot potatoe Says: September 14th, 2004 at 1:03 am
it’s shameful that moore useing the first admendment to strike against the president he doesn’t like “anti-american”… i think that many conservatives overreacted when they stated that…
Foodsnob Says: September 14th, 2004 at 4:30 am
Actually, zack, I hold a Masters in Fine Arts in Film Directing from UCLA. I know of what I speak.
The Documentary form is NOT objective. Look at a handful of great documentaries: Harlan County, USA; Triumph of the Will; even Supersize Me! They all present documentary evidence to prove the filmmakers’ OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. Yes, opinions.
Go ahead and look up “documentary” in the dictionary. Yes, you’ll see the standard idiotic definition that it is a film which only presents fact. Then, when you realize you’re basing your knowledge of an ART FORM from a definition in the dictionary, you’ll realize how retarded you are.
All documentaries are opinions. Even HOOP DREAMS, GO TIGERS, & DOG TOWN & Z-BOYZ. Some are just clearer than others.
Emory Says: September 14th, 2004 at 6:58 pm
Souldn’t a documentary be an honest attempt to determine the truth?
zoot potatoe Says: September 15th, 2004 at 12:19 am
i think moore was trying to use the truth to make bush seem bad… there is quite a bit of factual evidence in the movie, from what I read that’s not politically biased (reps: all lies. dems: all true… Me: part)
Foodsnob Says: September 15th, 2004 at 6:57 am
well, yes, i suppose a documentary should be an honest attempt to find truth. but the truth as who sees it?
i mean, TRIUMPH OF THE WILL glorified the Nazi master race… and you know what? to the people who commissioned the film that message was as truthful as they could imagine.
the point is — argue against the MESSAGE; not against the means by which the message is conveyed.
don’t just say “Oh, Farenheit 911 is propaganda and therefore is invalid.” instead, why don’t you try to argue against the POINTS THE MOVIE MAKES?
i imagine people are reluctant to do so because they’ll find it’s much harder make the argument “Bush was right to attack Iraq after 9/11″ than it is to make the argument “Michael Moore is fat and outlandish.”
don’t take the easy road, people.
Yates Says: October 17th, 2004 at 1:39 am
Michael Moore is no different than “Tokio Rose”. Trying everything in his power to defeat America.
draco Says: October 19th, 2004 at 6:48 am
go get ‘em food snob- Im an animation student- nice to know ther are other conservatives in entertainment.
Serbian National Says: October 19th, 2004 at 2:23 pm
I just have to say that nothing can be biased, but presenting HALF-truths to support your opinion, or bending the facts to do the same is not the same as presenting REAL facts to support it. That is why F911 is more propaganda than documentary. Even though nothing is completely unbiased, they can at least try their hardest. Mr. Moore went out of his way to not even present the slightest image of objectivity.
I have to admit I’ve never seen the movie (I’d be shouting back at the screen half way through) but I have read reviews, from both sides of that hump we call the political spectrum.
foodsnob Says: December 4th, 2004 at 4:10 am
Okay… couple of comments here.
Yates (#17) — Tokyo Rose was a psychological warrior; not really a propagandist (and certainly not a documentarian). She broadcast to American troops with the sole purpose of crushing their spirits. (By the way, she also went to UCLA.) It’s not really a fair comparison, and moreover, your comparison loses credibility when you can’t even spell Tokyo correctly.
Draco (18) — I am not a conservative. I hope you were kidding. I hate the current administration with furious passion. Cutting our taxes is the worst idea I have heard in my life.
Serbian National (19) — I thought you were making a half-way decent point, right up until you said you have never seen the movie. That’s when I realized you were an idiot. How can you say “Michael Moore went out of his way to not even present the slightest image of objectivity” when you HAVEN’T EVEN SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE???
You want an example of a biased half-truth? Read your own post.
As for the rest of you out there in Conservative Land, enjoy the next four years — we’ll be paying for them for another 50.
bonniem Says: December 4th, 2004 at 1:58 pm
My, my, I wish I was as smart as foodsnob and knew everything.
foodsnob Says: December 11th, 2004 at 1:17 am
Actually, bonniem, I don’t know everything.
For instance, I’m sure you could teach me A LOT about how to be a sarcastic cocksucker.
Serb National Says: December 13th, 2004 at 1:57 am
Hey food, I have seen the movie, and I continue to stick by my posts. When I wrote that, however, I was basing it off synopses of the movie that I had read off of unbiased review sites, as well as lists of facts stated in the movie that both liberal and conservative websites had presented me.
As I stated earlier, however, I have since seen the movie several times and continue to believe in what I said.
foodsnob Says: December 15th, 2004 at 8:03 am
glad you saw it, and glad you’re sticking to your guns. your side needs more people like you.
we liberals don’t have a lot going for us these days, but our strong suit is rationality. when we argue, we acknowledge the other side and attempt to dismantle their arguments.
your side, it seems, is much more reluctant to engage in that kind of a back-and-forth. conservatives are famous for dismissing the other side as being “evil,” “unpatriotic,” “crazy,” or “communist.”
those kind of blanket statements and insults are fine for entertainers like Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh, but if you’re really going to be taken seriously, you’re going to need to acknowledge your opponents’ inherent validity.
that means seeing Michael Moore’s movie before you criticise it… that means Sean Hannity NOT turning off someone’s microphone if he disagrees… that means not calling liberals “unamerican” every time we complain about Bush.
thanks for having an open mind, Serb.