SHORT JOKES ABOUT LIBERALS
Question - What is the difference between a liberal and a puppy?
Answer -A puppy stops whining after it grows up.
Question - What is the only thing worse than an incompetent liberal President?
Answer -A competent liberal President.
Question - Who was the first liberal Democrat?
Answer -Christopher Columbus. He left not knowing where he was going,got there not knowing where he was,left there not knowing where he’d been and did it all on borrowed money.
Q: How many liberals does it take to change a light Bulb?
A: At least ten, as they will need to have a discussion about whether or not the light bulb exists. Even if they can agree upon the existence of the light bulb they still may not change it to keep from alienating those who might use other forms of light.
Q:How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb?
A:None. Liberals wouldn’t actually change the light bulb, but they would show compassion for it by talking a lot about how terrible it is in the dark and more funding is needed to improve dim, 60 watt bulbs up to bright and productive 100 watt bulbs.
Q: How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Let George Bush fix it! It’s his fault it’s dark anyway!
Republican= American Says: July 16th, 2004 at 6:48 am
I strongly disagree with the last joke about it being bush’s fault for it being dark. Instead of blaming our president we should be blaming the Anti-American forces that really caused the problems.
Heather Says: July 28th, 2004 at 11:43 pm
I agree!
Shadow Says: September 10th, 2004 at 2:03 am
The last joke was quoting a liberal.
zoot potatoe Says: September 14th, 2004 at 12:46 am
COUNTER CONSERVATIVE JOKES!
Q: how many conservatives does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Who knows? they are so stuck in the past they still use candles
OH MY GOD! ZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
Q: how many conservatives does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: 2. one to screw it in and one to make rediculous claims that man-lightbulb relationships destroy america
DON’T GO CRYING YET! THERE’S MORE HILARIOUS JOKES!
Question: whats the difference between a conservative and someone in a mental institution?
Answer: Not much, actually
Question - What is the only thing worse than an incompetent liberal President?
Anser- George W. BUsh
I am sure that these slapped together jokes will make you laugh your stitches off as much as the jokes above tickled your funny bone…
Steve Says: September 23rd, 2004 at 4:16 am
The second joke was actually funny, even though I disagree with the message. Incidentally, all the “anti-liberal” jokes mentioned above were also funny. Just because a joke bashes the opposite party doesn’t make it funny, zoot. It takes some creativity and relevance to issues. You stumbled on that in number too, but otherwise, total failure. The other 3 are just flat out insults, and therefore not funny.
zoot potatoe Says: September 23rd, 2004 at 10:01 pm
I know, the entire point of my mocking “dont go crying yet” and “zing” was meant to emphasize that I have no clue what I am doing or talking about when it comes to the jokes, andI actually had meant to put a
next to it, but I forgot when my post got erased and so I had to create a fresh batch of boring “slapped together” new jokes.
also, I posted my stupid jokes because it emphasized the blind stereotypes that one will experience when they find (and become devoted to) their candadate. I’m that type of person that am hard to interprut because the posts have no feelings in it, so while I saw myself as joking, it is evident others will see it as a serious attempt to disregard the liberal jokes…
Steve Says: September 25th, 2004 at 1:49 am
That’s fair
Anonymous Says: October 2nd, 2004 at 1:53 am
I don’t like everyone making fun of John Kerry flip-floping on issues. It’s not nice to make fun of legally schizophrenic people.
Dani Says: October 18th, 2004 at 2:32 am
This is a good joke.
The Republicans today announced that they are changing their emblem from an elephant to a CONDOM because it more accurately reflects their political stance:
A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you’re actually being screwed.
stephanie Says: October 18th, 2004 at 3:24 am
that wasn’t even a good joke,Dani, because you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. most republicans are NOT rich, notice that most of the billionaires in this country are democrats (and the democrats are the ones protecting pricks like you!)
stephanie Says: October 18th, 2004 at 3:26 am
oh and by the way,Dani, if you had morals and were educated , you would be a conservative independent like me!
Gavin Says: October 31st, 2004 at 5:19 am
this is funny
Jonathan Ferguson Says: October 31st, 2004 at 9:08 am
Bush has more flip-flops than John Kerry. If you weren’t ignorant, you’d know that already. Just google bush flip flops and you’ll find dozens of examples. It’s funny you support a drunk fascist and ridicule Democrats for supporting a moderate war hero.
Chris Says: November 10th, 2004 at 11:33 pm
Hey, you guys want to make liberals angry?
Defend the United States.
Serb National Says: November 11th, 2004 at 1:39 am
Fergy, your head is so far up your ass we’d need an oil drill to get it out. Bush might have a few flip flops, I defy you to find a President or politician who doesn’t, but he’s far, far, FAR removed from Kerry’s “The People Are Always Right” policy. Unfortunately, the people aren’t always right and always blindly following the most popular idea isn’t a great idea if you want to be elected to any office.
We’ve been over this before, and I’m sure we’ll go over it again because of the first idea mentioned in this little post, but you have no idea what fascism is. Read a few books on Nazi Germany, or on the USSR. Hell, pick up 1984 and read it (its by George Orwell, same guy who wrote Animal Farm) and you will see fascism. We are not living in anything like a fascism.
As to Kerry being moderate: you freaking wish.
That is all I shall say on that subject.
thank god 4 bush Says: December 8th, 2004 at 10:45 pm
ok, I just HAVE to comment on the, “drunk fascist” statement - #1 - drunk? where the hell did you get that bull shit from? probably dan rather. And #2…fascist? If you weren’t so ignorant you would know that taking fascism to the extreem is allowing ultimate government control, something conservatives know leads to disaster - liberals haven’t picked up on that yet. And for gods sake! get off the fact that Kerry was in Vietnam, and NO he wasn’t a hero…he has desperatly tried to make himself seem that way, but he’s far from it.
But then again, there is no need to fight because the majority of the United States is intelligent and THANK GOD George Bush is back in office.
john Says: December 10th, 2004 at 11:04 pm
Nobody laughed at that “how to mak a liberal angry” joke a few posts ago. That was the best!
I’ll google bush flip-flop after this post. Should be interesting. I don’t recall ANY. Kerry played all sides (the bagged goose was a good touch).
He started seeing the light and stated definitively that he was going to go over there and kill Bin Ladin. I could picture him straping on the ol’ pearl handles.
Oh yeah, he was pretty firm about how Cheney’s daughter (who is a lesbian) could tell us that homosexuality is something you are born to.
Not one liners but just remembering that last debate that Kerry “won” is kind of funny.
Hwo Says: December 13th, 2004 at 3:00 am
wait a minute wait a minute
WAR HERO? ‘fergy’ u got a big surprise ahead
he went AGAINST REGULATIONS, SHOT AN UNARMED SOLDIER, AND CLAIMED A PURPLE HEART FOR A SCRATCH! How many people here would accept a purple heart for falling off a bike?
Serbian National Says: December 13th, 2004 at 3:58 am
How many people here would write up false documents in order to get that Purple Heart, stating that, instead of falling off your bike, you ran into heavy enemy fire and took three bullets to the chest, but killed at least twenty enemy soldiers on your own?
chillliberal Says: December 13th, 2004 at 10:44 pm
S. N. Thanks again for the daily humour…do you write on this board on weekends too…wow!
Questionning a soldier’s reputation is very touchy…especially if you never did any real military service. Just seeing the horrific images would be enough to cripple most of us for life! Forget about sleeping for while…it’s bad enough that Kerry had to go to Vietnam for that ”not very smart war” (see Documentary Fog of War)…this shouldn’t be a public subject at all…especially with his oponents record.
RD Davis Says: December 28th, 2004 at 6:16 pm
How many demokkkrats to change a bulb ? 2……..1 to change the bulb, and 1 to kiss my *ss.
Sean Says: January 2nd, 2005 at 9:52 am
Jon Ferguson,
Exactly what Moderate War hero would you be referring to. It can’t be Bill Clinton because he was a draft dodger, and it can’t be John Kerry because he wasn’t a War Hero…or a moderate. So I guess you’re referring to Al Gore.
Sean Says: January 2nd, 2005 at 9:54 am
Serb National,
I’m Impressed with your reply to Jon Ferguson.
conservitive comic Says: January 19th, 2005 at 5:53 am
bush fell of his bike too!
conservitive comic Says: January 19th, 2005 at 5:54 am
bush fell of his bike too!
anarchy please Says: January 27th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
I enjoy most of the things that were posted for a laugh, but to those of you that are offended I would suggest lightening up a bit. Some people really aren’t educated in politics, but just because someone doesn’t agree with you does not mean that they are automatically ignorant.
RJ Winans Says: February 17th, 2005 at 1:01 am
I strongly agree but # 25 isn’t really doing anythig to this website except dissing it! Its really good!
bushluver09 Says: May 13th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
I agree with #26 and i luv listening to the debates on this site!! Democrats comments are the funniest cause they are so stupid and immature and make no sense!!
Bush is my god Says: May 24th, 2005 at 12:07 am
Q: What’s the difference between a Democrat and a trampoline?
A: You take off your shoes before you jump on a trampoline.
Nikky Says: June 10th, 2005 at 2:12 pm
Hello,I would just like to say that all liberals cant do shit! Like look at are prime mionister he steals money from us! Then everybody just sits around and lets him get what ever he wants….So that shows the liberals for ya!!!!!The person who is running our contrey shouldnt get second chances!!!!VOTE FOR CONSERVATIVE, you might accomplish seomthing
Mr. Jack Says: June 11th, 2005 at 7:18 pm
First off Nicky, what country are you from? I can guarantee you it’s in better shape than the U.S is. For example, you probably have free health care, while our rates are skyrocketing. You probably have a cleaner environment, while we have oil hungry pigs (Oil industry, not Bush, for all you hotheaded conservatives out there.)
Mr. Jack
Suzanne Says: June 12th, 2005 at 1:51 am
Gee Nikky
Jesus was a Liberal
Think you might rethink your comment!
Suzanne
Suzanne Says: June 12th, 2005 at 2:01 am
Just a vague question
Republicians, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, Radicals, and several other catagories of political groups of people some place each individual.
Does anyone know the exact qualifications of each individual catagory?
Is it possible not to be in any catagory.
Is it possible just to believe what one believes and not only believe within the bounds of a specific group?
Is it possible in anyones mind that a person may be a bit of that and a touch of the other and some of even a different one and then also believe in something that none of these groups believe in?
Is there such a thing as a non catagory person?
Just wondering.
Suzanne
I thought we had gone beyond this catagory thing when we stoped being racist.
Or are we still racist but in the Political race.
Oh, do these people in different catagories, do they have specific character traits? Or either male or female, within specific age groups?
Just thinking on a very chilly rainy Saturday evening in the Strong Republician State of Utah.
Suzanne
Kay Says: August 8th, 2005 at 12:07 am
I liked the jokes at the very top of the site. I’m not saying that I don’t like Democrats (I don’t like Democrats), I’m just saying that I don’t want a bunch of softies “talking” to the terrorists. That is a red-flag to terrorists to attack us once more. I like the idea that my President can tell them to f**k off. Hell, if I could, I’d be shoving flags up their cracks instead of putting panties on their heads. I don’t think liberals realize that terrorists don’t care if you’re ‘nice’ to them. They blow THEMSELVES up to kill anyone who disagrees with them. In short- You either sympathize with terrorists, or you don’t. If you do, get out of my country, and if you don’t, God bless you. Bush is my President and I’m proud of him, no matter how nit-picky you liberal morons get. He has the guts and the power to fight terrorism. I do, too. Do you?
Josh Says: August 17th, 2005 at 4:20 am
First, ell said Kay. Second, Mr. Jack, I don’t know if you’ll be reading this but if you dislike this country so much, why not just leave? I’m sure most of us who actually love America would be better off. “If you don’t want to root for the team get out of the stadium!”
Mr. Jack Says: August 18th, 2005 at 8:02 pm
Josh, where did you ever get the Idea that I hated this country? When I stated above that other countries are in better shape, doesn’t mean I hate this one; I merely think our leaders could do a better job maintaining it. And tell me, if I hate this country so much why did I join the Army? Why did I serve in Afghanistan? And why, once I’m out of WestPoint, will I immediately go over to Iraq? I don’t know about you, but I don’t think some one who hates America would then go to fight for it. I love this country, I do not love its leaders, and there is a difference between the two.
“My country right or wrong; if right, to be kept right, and if wrong, to be set right” – Major General Carl Schurz, 29 February 1872
NY GIANTS FAN Says: August 25th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
LIBERALS ALWAYS SAY BUSH A MORON - CANT BE A MORON AND BE A PILOT just another reason why i laugh at dem libs– stupid idiots- liberals just mad they couldnt get any dirt on Bush
NY GIANTS FAN Says: August 26th, 2005 at 4:10 am
fuck you liberal — john kerry lost for a reason man has no plan — why 80% of americans backed Bush
Zach Says: August 27th, 2005 at 4:14 am
And what does that have to do with the current conversation #37?
Mr. Jack Says: August 27th, 2005 at 7:32 am
Ummm, John Kerry lost because the man has no clue how to run a campaign, he doesn’t know how to manipulate the media as effectively as Bush, He picked a poor choice for a running mate, (Still think he should have choose a republican)
And most of all, it was hard to stay awake during his speeches; it had nothing to do with his philosophy. To tell you the truth, I’m not sure what the outcome would have been if this were a battle of philosophy, its hard to tell with all the spin both side put on every issue, and all the political bashing going on. Just go to Blogs for Bush, I think there’s a link to it on this site, those people have no interest in their parties philosophy, they only care about bashing democrats. I believe that to truly move this nation forward, people like Right-Man, and NY GIANTS FAN need to stop bashing the other party and work WITH them to come up with a solution to the problems that face our country that both sides agree upon. But, as Joy would put it “I’m living in a dream world”
Kristine Says: August 31st, 2005 at 3:32 pm
This is to all the liberals out there….
Thanks for your contribution, but if I had wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I’d be at my local supermarket talking to the vegetables. Is that a conclusion or simply the place where you got tired of thinking? A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain’s advice; “It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.”
Jack Antilla Says: September 1st, 2005 at 7:19 am
Kristine, I know many highly intelligent intellectual liberals, so don’t disrespect these great minds by telling them they have the IQ of a vegetable. It’s fair to say the both sides have highly intelligent people as well as complete morons as I’ve discovered in my recent surfing of both liberal and conservative blogs.
I also say it would be best if both sides engaged in civilized discussion and debate to help solve problems rather than dismissing each others views completely and bashing everything they say.
krisitne89 Says: September 1st, 2005 at 3:40 pm
Sorry Jack, but I’ve never met a smart liberal in my whole life…they are idiotic crybabies…..Here they are complaining about the thousands of soldiers that have died from the war….but because of the Democrats making abortion leagal in some states……there are more than a million babies dying each year…so who are the killers here???…..when can you can tell me that????….
~Kristine~
krisitne89 Says: September 1st, 2005 at 5:40 pm
oh….might i add….i find that you telling me to respect ppl is rediculus….I can’t respet someone who kills unborn children…..that’s sick and barbaric….you guys also whine about the war and how many soldies have died….well…thaose arabs came over here and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent ppl…so we are simpluy getting back at them…so don”t tell me who I should respect….cuz i can’t respect the disrespectful…
~Kristine~
- Says: September 2nd, 2005 at 8:03 am
Good for you. I can’t respect “intellects” who can’t spell.
PS- Jack, I feel sorry for you. You have the right idea, but you’ll never soar like an eagle when your flying with a bunch of turkeys. Frankly, the writing on this page is barely legible. These people are near illiterate. Good luck to you.
Jack Antilla Says: September 5th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
Kristine, You have the wrong Idea completely. Democrats don’t kill babies, Irresponsible mothers and certain circumstances kill babies, Democrats simply support the right of the mother to choose what to do with her body.
And about the war, the reverse can be said for Republicans, You Cry about abortion and killing unborn children, but don’t give a damn in the world about the children affected by the War in Iraq.
In my mind they’re both hypocrites.
And as for intelligent Liberals, Many of the people I’ve studied under in the Past were liberal, while I disagree with some of the things they say, I respect them greatly, just as I respect the many conservatives that I also disagree with.
And anonymous, I agree I’m not getting anywhere here, but I do find the debate stimulating. I am currently at WestPoint military Academy and when I graduate, hopefully I’ll be able to make more of a difference, but for now, correcting the errors of those on the blogosphere will have to do.
krisitne89 Says: September 9th, 2005 at 11:08 pm
unborn children are a totallly different person…how is it the mother’s body??? but the thing about liberals is that they always go in a circle and they never shut up…..liberals need to realize that they are wrong…..SO DEAL WITH IT!!
Jack Antilla Says: September 10th, 2005 at 4:16 am
Gee Kristine, where is an unborn child? THE MOTHERS BODY! THATS WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH! The Unborn Child can only be aborted in the Early stages of pregnancy before the brain develops or any true consciousness is achieved, while there is a heart beat and therefore the child is alive, it cannot be determined whether or not the child is aware or even conscious, Most Doctors refuse to do It after a cretin point, therefore the Individual in development is still a part of the Mothers Body. And guess what? Conservatives are just as bad as liberals when it comes to bashing each other and not shutting up, Which Neither side should shut up, they just need to re-direct their focus from absolute hostility to each other like you preach, and focus on coming up with SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS, NOT PEOPLE TO BLAME FOR THEM. And I agree aspects of Liberalism are wrong, but then again, the same can be said for conservatives. That’s why I try to find Balance as best I can.
cherry Says: September 11th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
hey whoever said the one about Bush and whats worse than an incompitent liberal . You are mentally ill seriously . Liberal people are so dumb. I hate everyone of them with a passion . Most couldnt find there ass with both hands!
krisitne89 Says: September 12th, 2005 at 3:35 am
dude…as soon ans a baby is consived…it has a heartbeat…so therfore….YOU KILL INNOCENT CHILDREN!!!!!and Jack…if you haven’t realized yet…this blog is for LAUGHING AT LIBERALS…so i highly doubt that you can defeat me…I have WAY more ppl who got my back…so don’t even start with me…..
Joy Says: September 13th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
Jack,
I think you might find some verrry interesting facts if you do some research regarding how far into pregnancy that abortion is legal…as well as how many are done in the second and third trimesters. While what you stated regarding some doctors not performing abortions past a certain point is true, there are way too many more who prefer the big money of abortion to the best interest of the ‘patient’(woman) and perform them on what is undeniably -to any rational being-a human child.
I think you have the right idea of not finger-pointing, but actually solving the problem. That’s the tricky part. There seem to be 2 vastly different schools of thought as to what the problem is. How can there be unity on a solution when there is no unity on what the problem is?
Jack Antilla Says: September 14th, 2005 at 7:19 am
Joy, The reason the issues are blurred is because both parties don’t seem content until they’ve destroyed the opposite philosophy. Both sides put spin on the issues to make the other party look bad, and I must say it’s rather annoying. I’ve heard very little talk on solving issues in general such as the war in Iraq, all I’ve heard is rhetoric about either how everything is catastrophically wrong over there, or how everything is fine and dandy and there’s no problems at all that we’re winning the war. The reality is a mixture of both but neither side wants to admit that.
Iraq is being re-built, schools are being set up, and water and power are being restored even though in some areas electricity only exists for a few hours at a time. We are winning most major engagements with the insurgency but that doesn’t bring us any closer to wining the war, as we’re fighting an enemy that is not afraid to die and take as many with us as possible. All the while the majority of Iraqies look forward to living under a government of the people, if only they could agree on how to organize those people.
That is what is really happening in Iraq, but we will never hear it from either party. It’s either we’re winning and the insurgency is in it’s “last throws” or we’re dying in the hundreds and every one there hates us.
Frustrating.
Thank god I’m in the military and can get my Iraq news from my buddies on the front lines instead of mainstream politics.
Anna Says: September 14th, 2005 at 12:33 pm
Research shows that just as many conservatives and children of conservatives have abortions as liberals. What does that imply? There is no difference between the two groups on this issue when the matter becomes one of personal choice.
Joy Says: September 14th, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Jack,
Regarding Iraq-
Ah, how to organize those people:
That is interesting main point right now, isn’t it? The Iraqi ‘leaders’ in Iraq won’t agree on how they want their government run. The bottom line issue seems to be…
“Do we rule under this Islamic faction or that Islamic faction?”
One wild-eyed faction figuratively runs around tearing their hair, rending their garments and crying disunity and lack of representation when other factions won’t demand strict and rigid ‘Islamic’ control in the constitution. No matter how political they try to make it sound, the bottom line bone of contention there right now among the leaders is religious control.
That, of course, is my interpretation of their words and activity.
What say you?
Also Paul, Lefty, Circe, Suzanne,bonniem,…?
Jack Antilla Says: September 15th, 2005 at 2:07 am
Kristine, since when did this turn into a childish playground brawl. “I have WAY more ppl who got my back…so don’t even start with me…..”
Seriously I thought I was having an adult conversation but I guess not.
Any way, it looks like my previous reply to your comment didn’t make it through so I’ll have to re-state it.
I don’t advocate abortion. Murder is defined as taking away the heartbeat and brainwaves. The child gains these at 2 weeks into the pregnancy not at conception, but yes pretty damn close. However, it’s still the woman’s body. And therefore her right to choose what to do with it. And besides would you rather an unwanted child be brought into the world? This is cause for abuse, sometimes on an emotional scale, and sometimes on a physical scale, and rarely, you get things like “A child called it”
And I must stress your “those Arabs had it coming” is based on the assumption that it was the Iraqi insurgency responsible for 9/11, which it wasn’t, it was Al-Quida, 2 very, very separate groups.
Jack Antilla Says: September 15th, 2005 at 7:01 am
I say this is why religion should be left out of government affairs, it causes problems. Right now there are 3 groups battling it out for power, the Sheittes, The Sunni, and the Kurds. All of which hate each other because of religion, after all it’s not like they worship the same god or anything.
Sigh.
This is why the British should have paid more attention to the peoples of the middle east before dividing up territories into countries, because they grouped people together that hate each other, and it’s this disunity that lead to the rise of people like Saddam Hussein in the first place.
If the Iraqis left religion out of the government as, it utterly pains me to say this, Saddam did, they would be just fine, and that’s one of the reasons Saddam was able to keep the county in order. Though it would have been much better had he not advocated Rape, torture and murder as a means of controlling political rivals. If this government were able to put in a “freedom of religion” defined in their bill pf rights, as well as a “separation of religion and government” It would be just fine.
But really I don’t like focusing on this now while the insurgency is still recruiting foreign fighters from other countries, and gaining access to massive stockpiles of weapons. There simply aren’t enough troops to maintain security AND train Iraqi National Guard units, AND re-build the county all at once.
I think we need to take care of the Insurgency THEN focus on the government. After all, what a disaster it would have been had our founding fathers focused on drafting the articles of confederation while the British still had strongholds in the North East.
Brad Says: September 26th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
Wow. Anna’s comment was extremely f’d up. Apparently she doesn’t know the difference between a “fake conservative” and a true conservative. The fake conservatives includes people like Bush, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. These guys somehow get hicks/rednecks/trailer-park trash to support them, but in reality, they’re a bunch of liberals disguised as conservatives. And the south and west have a bunch of these fakes getting abortions. And obviously, they also oppose conservation, when in reality, should be supporting it. It is in their name: conservative, conservationist,conservative, YOU GET THE POINT. A true conservative, or paleo-conservative, is someone who is a true chrisitian (no divisions; that means there is no such thing as “Baptist” “Escapalean” “Anglican” etc. that make chrisitanity seem unofficial) and a conservationist, and also despise racism of any kind. The only famous person I know of who is a paleo-conservative is Michael Savage, and he can prove any liberal wrong on any subject. He also despises Limbaugh and Hannity. Listen to his radio show some time. You’ll become 10x smarter.
Anna Says: September 28th, 2005 at 12:07 am
Brad,
Read what you wrote again. Then think about it. I believe that if you think about what you wrote, it will start to seem very strange to you.
Joy Says: September 28th, 2005 at 6:35 pm
Well, wading right into the hornet’s nest, so to speak, I’ll make some personal observations on abortion:
-Many (most?) females seeking abortion feel overwhelemed and don’t clearly see any workable alternative.
-The majority of abortions end in at least one human death (as the zygote/fetus is never other than human)-not counting the ‘failed’ abortions which end with a live birth.
-Way too many abortions are repeat procedures and used as birth control.
-While the zygote/fetus can be argued to be part of the woman’s body, it can also be argued to be part of the man’s body; as without his sperm, which was housed in his body, there would be no fertilization and no zygote/fetus.
-Personally, I don’t see that advocating abortion has helped women in any way, shape or form.
It has only made it possible for us to continue to use and be used by males, without considering consequences of irresponsible actions. I see it as a high price to pay for ‘freedom’ to live our lives as we choose. Freedom is being free to do better, not to do ourselves and others harm.
Anna, you’ve mentioned that our fates are intertwined, and they are. What we do - even in private - affects others because it affects our character one way or another, which affects our choices and actions, which affect our life direction, which affects many.
Personally, I think our present society is too focused on individuals getting theirs as opposed to working as a unit toward the common good. I see no common good for us, our nation or our world in having irresponsible sex with other people behaving irresponsibly as if we are the end in and of ourselves. I like the ‘liberal’ ideology of helping those less fortunate, but I see a blind spot in helping the most helpless who wasn’t even given a choice to be brought into being. Ridding our bodies (but never our lives)of an unplanned pregnancy has never proven to be a positive force.
In closing, it seems that preventing pregnancy in the first place by encouraging and practicing self-control (the only true control possible) in our sexuality should be our focus. Hey, why waste all that energy on irresponsible sex when there are soooo many problems in society that need addressing through action?
Maybe we could get out of bed and get on with life.
Lefty Says: September 29th, 2005 at 11:31 am
But making abortion illegal will not reduce its frequency. It will just make it more dangerous. Just as many abortions will take place though - by conservative and liberal women alike. But women who can afford it will find relatively safer ways to have it done (i.e., travel to countries where it is legal) while the less economically fortunate will use risky procedures. Trying to talk people into not having sex is about as likely to work as asking fish not to swim. It is natural and strongly biologically driven. We are animals through and through after all and if our ancestors had not had irrationally strong sex drives, you and I would not be here. Nor would the human species survive.
Joy Says: September 30th, 2005 at 11:03 pm
Lefty,
I agree that sex is natural and strongly biologically-driven…as is hunger, yet we find a way to control that biological urge when the motivation is sufficient i.e being attractive, being healthy, being comfortable, or whatever. We are not prisoners of our biology unless we voluntarily give up our responsibility to control our urges. Even then it is possible to become free and regain control.
By the way, if we are animals through and through, and totally subject to our urges, why do you expect such high standards from Americans who are allegedly following their strong urges resulting in mistreatement of ‘terrorists’? Why should the ‘bad guys’ be treated any differently than they are treating others? I’ll tell you why: because we are above animals and capable of self-control and forgiveness and ‘unjustified’ mercy to our ‘enemies’.
We are not animals through and through. We are mankind and need to have and uphold higher standards than the animal kingdom. Survival of the fittest doesn’t cut it for us. Standing up for the little guy does. Doing right no matter what the other guy does is what we should continually aim for-and hit more often than not. It is also possible to control our sexual urges. If it isn’t, then why do we have any standard regarding sex at all? Why is it called ‘cheating’ when spouses have sex outside of their marriage? Why do ‘affairs’ make all the rag sheets if they’re no big deal? Sex is a positive force when used correctly and a deadly force when used incorrectly - not unlike fire, which is also natural; yet rational people who would not think of irresponsibly playing with fire, risk their lives, and the lives of others, with irresponsible sex.
If we want to be unaccountable, lets not blame it on our urges, let’s take the consequences that come bundled with our choices…without trying to fool ourselves for one minute that we just couldn’t help ourself. I’ve heard that excuse enough to last me a lifetime. Funny thing, in my case it was used by the perps. I can damn sure help those who can’t help themselves and free them of the source of their urge - so to speak. Except…I actually have and use the ability to control that strong natural urge and let justice come in due course. They have to answer for themselves and I have to answer for myself. Their weakness of character is no excuse for me to give in to my urges - no matter how strong or natural. What’s good for one strong urge is good for all. We can either control ourselves and all our biological urges, and use them responsibly, or we cannot.
Life proves that we can when we choose to.
Jack Antilla Says: October 1st, 2005 at 6:48 am
Oh but Joy I have to disagree with you on that one.
We ARE slaves to our bodies. Our minds while highly evolved, and according to some who believe in “higher evolution” our minds are trying, unsuccessfully to shed our bodies. But for right now we are still slaves to our instincts.
Say I come running at you with a baseball bat, if you’re thinking about Aristotle or Confucius, I can guarantee you you’re going to stop thinking about Aristotle or Confucius and put your self-first. We have evolved a great sense of control over our body, especially the Buddhists and the Hindus threw extreme self-discipline, but we are still slaves to our bodies needs.
At some point in your day, your body is going to stop thinking about whatever it is it’s thinking about, and tell you “hey, I got to eat” or “I got to take a crap”
It all comes down to Mallow’s Hierarchy of needs.
Hardwired into our subconscious or first priority is that of any Animal, our physiological need, Food, water, and reproducing the next generation of our species.
Next is our safety and security, protecting us from harm
Then we get more developed than many animals and work on love and affection.
Then we go for our self-esteem
And last, is our humanity, our self-actualization, our thinking about Aristotle or Confucius. But this comes last on our priority list.
And as for torturing terrorists, that’s a different kind of urge not hardwired into our brains.
That’s rage and hatred that is put there by traumatic evens such as seeing your best friend take a shot between the eyes, or watching as innocent people get shards of buildings stuck in their faces.
We always have the potential for such de humanizing actions but we can suppress them because they are not required, they are not hardwired into our physiological needs.
And as for your food reference, we suppress that threw obsession and brainwashing. Easy to do if you live in a society where it seems you’re expected to be super thin. It’s a disorder called Anorexia; it’s a psychological disorder, not a matter of discipline.
Lefty Says: October 2nd, 2005 at 5:03 am
Joy,
I recommend that you “give into the urge” sometime. It is really fun and I highly recommend it. Nothing better. And don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it.
Joy Says: October 2nd, 2005 at 7:01 am
Lefty,
I think you misunderstood me or have some preconceived idea of my particular conservative view of the role of sex in life.
I’ve been married for 22 years to the same man and we have 5 children who didn’t come through immaculate conception. I use fire, I feed hunger, I fill thirst and we have a very healthy and enjoyable outlet in each other for that strong biological urge - all the better for the committed relationship surrounding it. and…We care about how we look to each other.Get it?
I’m not sure if my husband would punch your lights out for talking to me like that, or laugh at the absurdity of what you said. At any rate, I think I have a healthy view of sex and a realistic view of the consequences of irresponsible sex. I highly recommend healthy sex…within a committed-for-life monogamous relationship. I strongly urge abstaining from irresponsible sex outside of those, sometimes lifesaving, safety parameters.
By the way, the strong biological urge has a bottom line purpose of what?…. I’m sorry, could you say it a little louder?…Oh, PROCREATION. Yes. And if you believed in a Creator, you might appreciate so much more that He made procreation enjoyable to our senses. It could’ve been otherwise you know. Anyway, even if you believe we’re animals, we could at least emulate those who mate for life and care for their young together. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
Those who emulate dogs and jackals tend to have personalities like them also.
Lefty Says: October 2nd, 2005 at 8:12 pm
Joy,
As you might have guessed, I don’t buy the basic assumption: i.e., that a creator put anything in anyone. i eschew magical thinking, sorcery, superstition and all other sorts of irrationality conceived by the tribes of yesteryear. Not that I am an atheist. I just believe that every form of religion offers a picture of a creator which greatly insults the creator (if there is one. After all, what respectable creator who want to be worshiped or would have the horrible personality that the one from the bible, Koran, or Tora has? Yuck! I wouldn’t tolerate a person with those characteristics, much less a diety.)
Jack Antilla Says: October 3rd, 2005 at 12:44 am
Joy, while the purpose of sex is procreation, It still doesn’t matter to our species, as you stated, we are different than other animals. And for one, besides dolphins, we are the only animals to have sex for fun, and nothing can or will change that, not religion, not law, nothing, and that’s why Lefty was right, Making abortion Illegal will not stop it, No more than prohibition stopped the consumption of Liquor, It will only serve to strengthen crime rates.
It all comes back to what has been stated in my previous comment, things like this are hardwired into our subconscious, while it IS possible to suppress urges like you claim, it still requires a massive amount of self discipline, and if you look at the average American, self discipline on that scale is non existent, nor will it ever be existent.
Joy Says: October 3rd, 2005 at 4:41 am
Two things, Jack and Lefty.
1. I didn’t mention making abortion illegal…you did.
2. I didn’t mention ignoring our sex drive - I spoke of controlling it.
You both seem to think I’m talking about some weird kind of impossible total suppression. C’mon guys. I really think we’re at least partly on the same page as far as controlling our sex drive. This may be seriously naive of me, but I just don’t think that you two rush out and have sex with every person that you find sexually attractive.
I’m talking about reality here, not some high-falutin’ ideas of pie-in-the-sky la-la land impossible purity. I’m talking about real life where more teens have or are carriers of STDs than don’t or aren’t. I’m talking about the present ‘pro choice’ leaders treating abortion as some sort of untouchable issue when, in fact, it involves true life and death-and needs to be truthfully addressed rather than covered with kitty litter in an effort to hide it. I’m talking about teaching our kids to respect themselves enough to wait until they can handle the possible results of sex (pregnancy) before they engage in it and SHOW THEM HOW and help them however we can.
Another point: Lefty - you stated that our species would not survive without our sex drive. If we all follow the present far left liberal trend of accepting all types of sexual behavior, it seems that the American human species will need no enemies to wipe us out, as we will do it ourselves. Between abortion, homosexuality, multiple partners (thus spreading disease exponentially), child sex, teen sex, bestiality and who knows what else - if these lifestyles became the norm, how is that furthering our species? So, it is not our sex drive that keeps the human species going, but the proper use of it.
moni Says: October 3rd, 2005 at 8:53 pm
go Conservatives
jamie Says: October 3rd, 2005 at 8:56 pm
i agree with u Jack
jamie Says: October 3rd, 2005 at 8:58 pm
Go liberals-#69
Jack Antilla Says: October 4th, 2005 at 3:31 am
Joy, I never said to suppress the sex drive, I’m merely pointing out the flaw that you think the typical human being can control it, let alone the average American. It takes a serious amount of self discipline to control your sex drive, especially for males, I’m not saying suppress it completely, I’m talking about just keeping it under control, because sex, is EVERYWHERE, and America is one of the hardest countries on sex, go overseas to Europe or Japan, and it’s hardly censored. While by the way you talk it seems you have a decent control over it, many Americans do not because they are not disciplined enough to control it. Further more it’s a lot easier for married couples to control it because they’re committed, unless the marriage is weak, then one or both partners may feel the urge to have an affair, and they probably will because their self control is not enough to deny their urge.
That’s why promoting abstinence alone will never work, especially for teens. Because nothing will prevent teen sex, especially nowa days, Just ask Anna, she’s probably a freshman or a sophomore in high school this year, I’m sure she can tell you all about the pressures of sex on teenagers.
Right now I can’t give you many examples of college pressure, while I know it is extreme, I have not experienced it due to academy regulations and what not. Commitment to a family is not smiled upon here at all.
If you really want to stop STD’s, Promote abstinence as it does get threw to some teens, but also teach usage of condoms and birth control, otherwise you’re in for a surprise.
While I agree the Far left’s opinion of sex would lead to destruction, so would the far right.
Think about it, They preach NO condoms, all abstinence, no birth control, etc.
You think people are going to listen to that? NOOOO, we’d be reproducing at a rate that we’d consume this planets natural resources at such a rate we not only destroy our selves, but countless other species and ecosystems.
There fore we must find a balance.
And I doubt bestiality would EVER become normal, and Homosexuality, you have no right to deny those people sex, while it spreads disease, so does heterosexual sex. Child sex would never become the Norm, and along with bestiality, is not supported by the Left, and will never be accepted by our society. Teen sex already is the norm, just ask Anna about her high school, I doubt it is supported by the left, the left merely accepts there’s little they can do to prevent it, therefore try to push that Teens at least use protection.
Sigh
Jetz ist alles.
bonniem Says: October 4th, 2005 at 1:18 pm
Let me jump into this abortion discussion with just a thought. I know that in the 50’s and 60’s a lot of people did not have sex as teenagers, because it was still not widely acceptable. Some of the thoughts were, “What if I get pregnant?” or ” I don’t want to be known for sleeping around”. So it was a little easier to not be led into that temptation. If you don’t have sex the first time, then you don’t know what you are missing when the guy (for the most part) puts the move on you and tells you that if you really cared for him, you would “go all the way”. I know that a person ( a female ) can stay a virgin until married. But they have to be strong and self assured, and have a high moral value. But ——-for those who think they have to have sex in order to be liked, or loved, I am not sure abortion is a bad thing in some cases. Much better than having a child out of wedlock that will be considered a burden or mistreated, etc. So, with the morals our world has today, I don’t see changing Roe vs Wade anytime soon. Also, another trend I have seen in our local High School (even tho I know of 2 teens who are pregnant, unmarried, but will have the babies.) is oral sex. They feel this is the “safe way”. So where I think a person can and should save their virginty for marriage, I also realize it is not that easy for some. (Actually not easy for most - but some do anyhow. ) What I would like to see, is for the male and female take responsibilty for making sure they don’t get pregnant.
bonniem Says: October 4th, 2005 at 1:23 pm
Comment #1, That is the joke —– Liberals blame everything on Our President. You know he has even been causing the Hurricanes.(according to the Kennedys and other people who will grab anything out of the air to make our President look bad). If they don’t get their act together and start doing some positive things, other than whine and criticize — they will lose the next election also.
Lefty Says: October 4th, 2005 at 2:10 pm
Joy,
I think that your understanding of liberalism is a caricature. The right has falsely portrayed liberal values for so long that the right now has absolutely no idea what it is that liberals actually believe on any issue. Your understanding of liberalism is a joke.
Jack Antilla Says: October 5th, 2005 at 5:16 am
Couldn’t have said it better myself Bonnie, better the child die than be brought into the world unwanted, because when they’re aborted, atleast with abortion they can be spared the emotional and physical abuse that probably comes with unwanted childhood.
you said it yourself Joy, the Family is the most important central unit in american society.
bonniem Says: October 5th, 2005 at 3:11 pm
Lefty, in your comment #74 to Joy, are you saying that the left doesn’t caricature the right, or conservatives, or Republicans. You are smart enough, surely, to know it goes both ways.
Joy Says: October 5th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
Lefty,
I was speaking of (and stated it as such)FAR left, not where the majority of real people on the ‘left’ are.
Joy Says: October 5th, 2005 at 5:29 pm
Jack,
I have teenagers, male and female, and am aware of the extreme peer pressure - and general life pressure- to practice irresponsible sex.
I was also a teenager myself, which gives me an advantage in helping my teens see danger zones ahead of time and steer clear of them. A lot of controlling the sex urge (NOT repressing it)has to do with not setting ourselves up in the first place. It also has to do with what we feed our mind. While we can’t stop thoughts, we can replace them.
By the way, my husband and I didn’t die physically once we got married.
A common misconception of marriage is that the sex drive is now easily controlled because there’s guaranteed sex with your spouse when it’s wanted/needed. Any other married people want to comment on THAT one?
EVERYONE has to choose to be responsible with their sex drive. Being married doesn’t stop the desire to be attractive to the opposite sex, nor does it automatically enable us to turn off our physical senses, emotions and hormones. We have to practice the same basic control techniques throughout our lives.
Granted, married people can have an advantage…which used to be one strong incentive for people (males particualarly) to get married.
In summary; single and married people are sexual beings who can and need to practice control over their sex drive with realistic workable practices.
Side note Jack: I was in the Air Force and am very aware of the pressure in the military. (a young pretty female in the service 25 years ago…can you begin to imagine the ‘pressure’?) On the surface its “Rah rah family” but in everyday life it’s a gauntlet of inuendos, double-meaning phrases, outright explicit tales and regales…you name it…and the barrage is constant and wearing, especially when living in co ed dorms on site. I don’t think it’s that much different than what college students and people who work outside the home face, basically. Easy availability of and constant exposure to drugs, sex (excuse me, can I come in my own room now?), alcohol, porn, cheating, ‘under the table’ side deals, politics, brown-nosing, gossip and lies about yourself, co-workers/dorm mates-Especially if you don’t participate in the illegal stuff…does that pretty much describe anything you’re familiar with? I forgot to mention that this is being practiced by the leadership, which makes it interesting for those lower in rank/station.
I have a clue when I talk about the ability to control our sex drive. We’re all real people with real urges/drives/desires. We can’t make them go away, but we CAN control them.
I say:
Aim for the bullseye. When you miss, don’t assume it can’t be hit; learn from real people who hit it, readjust your technique and practice ’til you get it.
Joy Says: October 5th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
Me again. Short comment.
Remember, each ’successful’ abortion ends at least one human life - how is that ’safe’ for the woman having it
(let alone the life that was ended)?
I guess it depends on your definition of ’safe’.
It’s a fallacy to think that ending a human life is the better choice for those it seems to inconvenience.
It never goes away…….
Lefty Says: October 6th, 2005 at 2:56 am
Joy,
According to the Catholic church, masturbation (by males) ends a human life and is a sin. That of course is absurd. It is also absurd to consider a blastocyst a human being. A blastocyst is a human in the same sense as something that drips from your nose when you have a cold is a human.
Jack Antilla Says: October 6th, 2005 at 6:56 am
Joy, where I am, its a little bit different than regular military bases. I don’t know if you went to the Air academy or not, if you did you’d know that there is an exceptionally long commitment to it, one that the service has to pay for, and having another commitment gets in the way and they wind up wasting thousands of dollars on you, something that doesn’t make the ones paying for it very happy.
Drugs and alcohol here are not easy to come by, and even if you do get them they’d be able to tell, after all unlike most colleges this one is extremely physical, and taking any kind of depressant will decrease your physical performance significantly.
As for gossip, that’s a given in any environment, especially college.
Which brings me to another point, High school I can guarantee you is a lot different now than when you went there. It’s good that you talk to your kids about the pressures they go through, but honestly you cannot contemplate what they go through without actually being there. After all, all teenagers keep secrets from their parents, no matter how open they are.
I’m interested to here Anna’s take on this subject as if I recall right she’s in high school. I’m curious to see if it’s changed in the last 4-5 years.
But I’m geting worn out over this whole abortion debate, every time it’s brought up the debate goes nowhere, just as it is now, I’d rather talk about more important things like what the hell we’re going to do about the economy, and more importantly, China.
Righty Says: October 6th, 2005 at 11:28 pm
What exactly defines a human? Shall I guess?
How about Birth? if that is your answer, then is it ok to lethally pucture the skull of a 39 week unborn baby and pull it out as an abortion. (If you think that is acceptable, your SICK).
How about “when its viable”? LOL, is that 20 weeks, 21 weeks, 21 weeks 1 day 2 hours,30 min and 3 sec? and if so, then if you abort it 1 sec or 1 hour earlier or later, what has changed?
So Lefty, When does life begin? unfortunantly it is all about dollars and convience with the left.
The only rational and consistent answer to when life begins is at Conception.
Lefty Says: October 7th, 2005 at 2:33 am
Righty,
I can assure you that neither I nor anyone else can come up with a good answer to the question of when one becomes human (perhaps we never do). I am sure that if you thought about your answers you would find them unacceptable too. But at 21 weeks you still have gills and resemble a rodent more than a human, both anatomically and functionally.
Joy Says: October 7th, 2005 at 3:56 pm
Re: #83
So, now someone’s opinion of our looks decides our humanity?
I thought it had something to do with our DNA.
I find the picture of the 21 week old male’s (his name was Samuel even then) tiny hand gripping the finger of the surgeon who performs spina bifida correction surgery on him very intriguing. Real photograph. Real surgery. (michaelclancy.com) Worth a thousand words, that one.
Those little newborn (not even in utero, but born) kangaroos are interesting looking, aren’t they?
And newborn rabbits…sheesh! Talk about your rodents!
And seedlings, pollywogs, caterpillars…
not very full-term looking. Must not be worth keeping.
And newborn humans…(they are humans then,right? I mean, even though their skull isn’t completely closed and many look like little yodas, only hopefully not green and minus the ear-style)…
don’t look like they will when they’re twenty. So what?
Basing conclusions on looks alone and/or trying to use looks as evidence of proof of humanity or lack of it is poor science indeed.
Joy Says: October 7th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
So, Jack,
Start a China discussion under “commentary and articles” already. Another interesting topic!
Jack Antilla Says: October 8th, 2005 at 3:00 am
Oh Joy, I’m one step ahead of you. I’ve been working on a China discussion for some time now,and it will be posted soon.
Righty Says: October 8th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Lefty,
without the sperm and the egg together, this is no life. When the egg and sperm mix, there is unique DNA that never changes. That my friend is conception and the beginning of life.
On this topic, our problem as a society is that we are all about selfish convience. For the most part, abortion is a Birth Control for the irresponsible.
btw, at 21 weeks gestation, a baby does NOT have gills. At 20 weeks gestation, babies are born and they don’t look rats.
Lefty Says: October 8th, 2005 at 8:42 pm
Righty,
Recall that the question was not, ‘when does life begin?’ The question was ‘when does one become human.’ Very different questions. You are right about the gills, they disappear a few weeks earlier and at 20 weeks embryos start looking a little less rat like. Ontogeny does appear to recapitulate phylogeny to some extend, doesn’t it. But babies are not born at 20 weeks - that’s not quite 50% through the gestation cycle.
I should also know that I am a parent who has adopted children who I love and cherish with all of my heart - so I am probably quite different from your concept of who I am. Indeed you know virtually nothing about me (gender, age, race, nationality, education, how many different names I blog under on this site, etc….). I do fervently believe, however, that a woman has sole responsibility at all times for all decisions regarding anything that is residing within her body, be it human or parasite. I also believe that we must always protect women from those who would force them to bare the baby of a rapist etc. I also believe that we need to be protected from the religious zealots (power freaks) who would impose their fantasy world on rational people who have seen through the nonsense and chose to accept reality. The fact that my rejection of their fantasy religious beliefs infuriates them further suggests to me that the underlying motivation of their religion is to manipulate and control others (deep down they think of themselves as the god, or the ‘father, in the story).
Joy Says: October 10th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
Lefty,
What percentage of abortions are performed due to rape/incest?
Righty Says: October 10th, 2005 at 10:39 pm
So, based on your statement “I do fervently believe, however, that a woman has sole responsibility at all times for all decisions regarding anything that is residing within her body” then you support the abortion of full term baby (40 weeks). The procedure IS completed by pulling out the babys head, killing it and then pulling the rest out.
You seem more compasionate then that which is why i pointed out that if you going to say its right or wrong, then you have to determine why it would be wrong. It would be wrong when the baby is “human life”. It is FLAT WRONG in anyones book to kill human life. So when does human life begin. My point was that when you take out the clouds of MONEY and IRRESPONSIBILITY, the only conclusion is that it begins at conception.
As far as you comments on religion, the last one was interesting. You said “(deep down they think of themselves as the god, or the ‘father, in the story).” That is somewhat humorous as the reality is that Christians (which is who your talking about, i am sure you tolerate any other religion) put all faith in GOD. Athiest, Humanists, etc… they put all their faith in Man. The rest of your comments are absolutely ridiculous attacks and typical of left wing zealots.
krisitne89 Says: October 11th, 2005 at 12:17 am
IT’S NOT A FLIPPEN EMBRYO!!!! IT’S A HUMAN!!!!
Lefty Says: October 11th, 2005 at 9:41 am
Righty,
You profoundly misunderstand both the abortion issue and the basis of christianity. You are confused.
Lefty Says: October 11th, 2005 at 9:48 am
Joy,
I don’t know the percentages. Why does that matter? I assume that most abortions are done by middleclass daughters of republicans (usually sorority girls, according to college statistics. Many of them were probably date raped by fraternity boys - also most of whom are republicans.). If you eleminated republicans you would cut abortion by more than half. I am sure of that.
righty Says: October 12th, 2005 at 2:53 am
Lefty,
You are doing what typical liberals do, avoiding the topic, spinning away from the question when you know your caught not knowing the answer. You need to go back and read my post, or not, since you have really have no intention of listening to reality.
Joy,
let me correct Lefty. Most abortions come from the lower class which in 95% of cases is inner city, urban teenagers. It you want to place a political affiliation on them (based on parents since teenagers do not vote) they would be DEMOCRATS!!! And its the REPUBLICAN TAXPAYERS who foot most of the bill through planned parenthood etc.
Something every liberal should always remember:
“Wrong is Wrong, even if everyone is doint it, Right is Right, even if no one is doing it”
Abortion is FLAT Wrong.
nutslikebush Says: October 13th, 2005 at 2:59 pm
Righty,
Every year the US dept of Health and Human Services published statistics on abortion. It turns out that women who are having abortions differ from your characterization. 19 percent are teenagers (low income teenagers are the most likely to continue an unwanted pregnancy, just the opposite of what you said), 68 percent of those having abortions are white, 88 percent of abortions take place before the 13th week of gestation, only 1.5 of abortions happen after week 15, 43 percent of all adult american women have had at least one abortion, 70 percent of women who have abortions identify themselves as christians. So, most abortions are by white christian women who abort the fetus in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy. Those are the people you should be talking to if you want to change things. On the other hand, if none of the abortions that happened during the last 10 years had occurred, our economy would have now to generate an additional trillion dollars every year to cover the expense of taking care of them. PS I used to be Lefty but now prefer to be call nutslikebush.
Joy Says: October 13th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Actually, my question was how many abortions are performed due to rape and/or incest?
Since rape was brought up by “Lefty” (or was it Anna? or Circe?), I wondered if she/he/they… knew the facts regarding the actual percentage of abortions performed due to rape.
Joy Says: October 13th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
Lefty,
It seems that on the one hand you say that our sexual urge can’t be controlled, and on the other you talk about ‘date rape’.
Honey, if the guys can’t control their sexual urges, how is there date rape? Aren’t they just acting on natural animal instincts and strong biological urges that they can’t control?
Shouldn’t females just know that there will be sex if they spend time with (or if they come in the vicinity of) guys who are physically attracted to them? After all, that strong biological urge and their animal instincts may kick in at any time and they won’t be able to control them.
The follow-through of the ‘logic’ of not being able to control our sexual urge means that there should be no punishment for ‘date rape’, as there would be no such thing.
Maybe the Muslims who require the women to be covered from head to toe have the answer…except, doggone it all anyway, they still have ‘rape’ too.
Alas, alas, where is the hope for us sexually driven animals who can’t control ourselves? We have evolved to a lower life form, it seems, than the emperor penguin and the eagle and the beaver and….
nutslikebush Says: October 13th, 2005 at 7:38 pm
1.5 in my previous comment should have read 1.5 percent.
nutslikebush Says: October 13th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
RIghty,
The world is shades of grey. If you think anything important can be portrayed in black and white, then you live in a cartoon world like the fantasy world that Bush lives in.
the blogger formerly known as Lefty.
nutslikebush Says: October 14th, 2005 at 3:42 am
Righty,
Every year the US Dept of Health and Human Services publishes statistics on abortion. It turns out that women who are having abortions differ from your characterization. 19 percent are teenagers (so 81 percent of women who have abortions are 20-years-old or older. Low income urban teenagers, in fact, are the most likely to continue an unwanted pregnancy - just the opposite of what you said), 68 percent of those having abortions are white, 88 percent of abortions take place before the 13th week of gestation, only 1.5 percent of abortions happen after week 15. Interestingly, 43 percent of all adult american women have had at least one abortion. 70 percent of women who have abortions identify themselves as christians. So, most abortions are by white christian women who abort the fetus in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy. Those are the people you should be talking to if you want to change things. They are the ones sitting beside you in church. On the other hand, if none of the abortions that happened during the last 10 years had occurred, our economy would have now to generate an additional trillion dollars every year to cover the expense of taking care of them. the blogger formerly known as ‘Lefty’.
chitoryu12 Says: October 15th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
Okay, who says that Kerry’s a war hero? The guy wanted to leave the war so badly that he gave himself “combat injuries” that a band-aid could fix. He shot an M79 grenade launcher at a riverbank near his boat. He also got some rice lodged in his ass once when he shot a sampan.
Besides, didn’t he say that there were no war heroes in Vietnam? Oh, that’s right! He wasn’t talking about himself.
nutslikebush Says: October 17th, 2005 at 1:40 am
Buck,
did you pull the plug on your site?
Lefty
nutslikebush Says: October 17th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
Joy,
some trivia - emperor penguins, eagles, and beavers are serial monogomists, not life-long monogomists. They ditch last season’s mates for new ones every year. So their “divorce rate” is even higher than humans’. Since we are asking extreme questions I suppose that I should ask you a question like this: if your daughter was violently raped by Charles Manson and she became pregnant, do you think the government should have the right to force her to bare his child? Or try this, if your daughter had a condition during pregnancy that meant that she would die if she continued to carry the fetus, should the government force her to give up her life to carry the fetus?
nutslikebush Says: October 17th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
chitoryu12,
I suppose the real point is that Kerry sucks and Bush sucks even worse. On the vietnam issue, all Kerry had to do to beat Bush was to report for duty (which Bush failed to do - remember). Kerry wasn’t a great candidate, but Bush is the worst president in history by any measure. PERIOD!
nutslikebush Says: October 17th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
Joy,
You will note that I never said that our sexual urges can’t be controlled. That clearly was a misreading or intentional misinterpretation of what I said.
nutslikebush Says: October 17th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Joy,
apparently you know how many abortions are associated with rape - do tell.
nutslikebush Says: October 18th, 2005 at 1:34 am
Joy,
I know of one such case on a very personal basis. That, my friend, is enough to make the point in my world. I don’t want the government forcing yet another decision down my, or anyone else’s throat, who has already been violated horribly. It seems like letting conservative nuts like Righty have the power to make a deliberate rational decision instead of allowing the individual who actually has something at stake in the matter is absolutely insane. I wouldn’t trust people like Righty to be in charge of rearranging my sock drawer. I certainly don’t want such creeps having a say in any major decisions in my life. Keep your politics out of my personal like!
nutslikebush Says: October 18th, 2005 at 1:34 am
Joy,
I know of one such case on a very personal basis. That, my friend, is enough to make the point in my world. I don’t want the government forcing yet another decision down my, or anyone else’s throat, who has already been violated horribly. It seems like letting conservative nuts like Righty have the power to make a deliberate rational decision instead of allowing the individual who actually has something at stake in the matter is absolutely insane. I wouldn’t trust people like Righty to be in charge of rearranging my sock drawer. I certainly don’t want such creeps having a say in any major decisions in my life. Keep your politics out of my personal life!
righty Says: October 18th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
Lefty,
Ref. Your statement “The world is shades of grey. If you think anything important can be portrayed in black and white, then you live in a cartoon world like the fantasy world that Bush lives in.
the blogger formerly known as Lefty.”
Life IS in every aspect BLACK or WHITE. your ALIVE or DEAD. There is not in between.
It is always clear when someone has no substance to talk about, that is when they call names (like cartoon character).
The bottom line is you STILL cannot tell me when LIFE BEGINS. We must agree that MURDER is wrong. If you kill someone that is ALIVE, that is MURDER. So tell me logically when you believe someone is ALIVE.
Righty (and Correcty)
nutslikebush Says: October 19th, 2005 at 1:32 am
No righty,
Life there is simply no particular moment in time when life begins. The boundaries are irreducibly fuzzy. You say life begins at conception - when is conception? When a sperm penetrates the ovum? When the first division occurs? When differentiation occurs? How about the question of when one becomes a human - it is infinitely more difficult and ultimately unanswerable. If you think it is answerable, you simply haven’t really thought about it.
nutslikebush Says: October 19th, 2005 at 1:34 am
Righty,
In the future, please refer to me as nutslikebush.
nutslikebush Says: October 19th, 2005 at 1:48 am
Righty,
Remember, I am the one who in real life actually adopted children who others did not want. I would challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and take care of children but I think that living in a home with extremist right wing nuts is worse than death.
nutslikebush Says: October 22nd, 2005 at 12:16 pm
I would be interested in what you guys think about Wilkerson’s (Powell’s right-hand man at the State Dept) analysis of the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice. In short he claims there was a cabal between Rumsfeld and Cheney, that Bush doesn’t know anything about foreign policy and doesn’t seem capable of learning, that Rice just sucks up to Bush to advance her career. Fascinating to read a recent insider’s perspective on the whole disaster of this administration.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902246.html
Jack Antilla Says: October 25th, 2005 at 3:22 am
And So… The site Finaly dies.
nutslikebush Says: October 25th, 2005 at 1:24 pm
I think that conservatives are starting to realize that the Limbaughs, O’Reillys, Savages, Hannitys etc are like bartenders who keep telling them what they want to hear as long as the alcoholic keeps ordering more drinks (propoganda). The Murdochs and other extremists who control the mass media now have been polluting the information environment for years now and have turned radio talk shows and TV faux news into a virtual toxic waste dump. I see it as a hopeful sign that there is now a backlash against the conservative media propaganda and that conservatives are starting to recognize that they have been duped and used by the neocons. Now that the CIA has pursued justice against the Whitehouse and the Justice Department is getting to the bottom of some of the neocon vicious attacks against their critics, maybe some of the top neocons will go to jail for their roles in TreasonGate.
Lug Says: October 25th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Hey nutslikebush:
>
It’s more fasinating to read what causes the suicidal Liberal mind:
The Secret to the Suicidal Liberal Mind
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/612852/posts
nutslikebush Says: October 27th, 2005 at 12:53 am
I am proud to be a liberal. Liberals, such as the founding fathers of our country (especially my favorite, Thomas Paine), Abraham Lincoln (a liberal republican) and before them, thinkers like John Locke and other prime movers of the enlightment. Have you noticed that the great thinkers and champions of human freedom and dignity throughout western history were usually liberals. I think it is pretty obvious, and sad, that the typical “conservative” in this country is uninformed (or misinformed by the information pollution that comes from the Limbaughs, the Moonie newspaper called the Washington Times (it really is owned by Reverend Moon you know. Why does Limbaugh always quote the moonie newspaper to make his points? That should just be embarassing), the White Supremicists who own propaganda magazines like American Spectator (check it out for yourself, they really are white supremicists and were Nazis during the 1940s. they funded the swiftboat lie factory too. bet you didn’t know that, unfortunately. It is hidden in plain sight. Just do a little research). The ‘Free Republic” is part of the effort to mislead and control you too. Practice a little critical thinking, Lug. Use your mind. All that we have in the modern world that is good, has its roots in the liberal thinking that emerged during the enlightment. Our founding fathers were educated in the liberal arts tradition of the enlightment. Follow their example. You and others who visit this site are probably good people, but your minds have become hosts for a virus (or, more properly, a ‘meme’) that is really hurting our culture and endangering our future. Sometimes I read what the conservative media is putting out and just think to myself, these people have not learned a thing since the 12th century? They missed out on the scientific revolution (and are brainwashed into believing weird superstitious nonsense), don’t understand that other species are barometers that give us direct information about the health of our environment (when they are driven to extinction, we won’t be far behind. Our fates are interwoven with theirs whether you understand that or not.) don’t understand western history (especially intellectual history), and don’t understand why we can’t conquer the middle east with a neocon crusade. Everything that your god, Bush, has attempted has turned out to be a catastrophic blunder (if you don’t see that, you are hopelessly brainwashed. Wolfowitz won’t get his utopia (even at a cost of hundreds of thousands of human lives and over $400 billion borrowed dollars so far) and we won’t even get the cheap oil out of this envasion that the administration had counted on (just another miscalculation, but who’s counting?). Our Vice President (emphasis on Vice) did hook his company up with about $20 billion in no bid contracts though - so perhaps there is a silver lining if you own Halliburton stock. The 50 or so covert CIA agents who used the same cover as Val Wilson (Plame) have lost that cover, an energy consulting firm, and have had all of their WMD intelligence and contacts compromised. So even the CIA is pissed at your people for their screw ups. The conservative media tries to tell you that democrats have something to do with the CIA leak scandal. But even that is a lie - the CIA asked for this investigation and it is entirely under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Justice. No democrats have any role whatsoever in the leak investigation. So the next time Rush or one of those other morons tries to get you to believe a lie, call them and tell them you don’t appreciate it. Better yet, find something intelligent to do with your mind.
Lug Says: October 27th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
Nutslike bush….
What a bunch of pabulum!!!!
Ther’s a big difference between a “Classical Liberal” like Paine
and the modern Lib kook of today!!!
nutslikebush Says: October 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Wow. This just in - “Cheney, Libby Blocked Papers To Senate Intelligence Panel” during the buildup to the Iraq invasion, Cheney hid intelligence documents from senate intelligence committees. Impeachment is too good for these clowns. http://www.nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1027nj1.htm
righty Says: October 28th, 2005 at 12:02 am
Lefty (or AKA NutwhohateBush),
Typical of what the left does well. You repeat lie after lie after lie after lie until enough people think its true. Notice what you said was statements, NO FACT WHATSOEVER.
I will only address one of the lies because no one is really listening to this crap anyhow.
Here are the FACTS on the Valerie Plame smear from the left.
Valerie Plame, a CIA employee, and ex covert agent (she hadnt been covert in 5 years) is married to Mr. Wilson who happens to be a left wing kook who at the time was doing everything he could to take down the administration over the IRAQ War. His finding, when he returned was that IRAQ had not attempted to get Nuclear Material. That turned out later to be ANOTHER Liberal Lie repeated, and repeated. They actually DID try to get nuclear material but were unsuccessful. Where the “leak” that isnt a “leak” comes into play is that Judith Miller was researching it and in her questioning she asked who sent Mr. Wilson on his quest. The answer was, i dont know, ask his wife, she is CIA.
THOSE ARE THE FACTS, SO GET IT STRAIGHT.
There was NOTHING Illegal about any of it. It was all triggered by the left HATE GROUPS, which apparently you are a part of.
Jack Antilla Says: October 28th, 2005 at 5:09 am
Wilson is not a “left wing cook” righty, in fact, in 2000 he donated a large sum of money to the Bush Campaign.
nutslikebush Says: October 28th, 2005 at 11:16 am
Right,
TYPICAL of what the right does poorly - that is, THINK! You are just parroting the Rush Limbaugh and company misinformation. Look for some objective information on the matter and you will find that it conflicts with the story that Rush is telling you. You swollowed the crap that the right wing fools shoved at you without even chewing.
Check your facts and you will quickly see that your sources are lying to you.
nutslikebush Says: October 28th, 2005 at 11:38 am
Righty,
When Bush Sr. appointed Wilson to be a diplomat to Iraq before the first Gulf War, do you think that he was seen as a political partisan? When Wilson stood up to Saddam, faced him down, and single-handedly prevented Saddam from taking Americans in Iraq hostage days before the Gulf War that he was less than heroic? Bush Sr. praised Wilson’s diplomatic work in Iraq and even wrote to him after his NY Times piece was published to say that he agreed with Wilson’s piece. Wilson is the true patriot in this story and the right-wingers just want to do their typical character assasination exercise. You guys reflexively attack any percieved opposition instead of inviting intelligent criticism - that’s a major flaw and weakness of the conservative movement. If you don’t tolerate, and even invite, criticism you won’t discover the best answers.
As for Wilson’s wife, everyone now recognizes that she was indeed a covert agent. That’s not even open to debate any more because it is an established fact. The energy company that she used as a cover was fictional too. She was a high level point person on WMD program in the CIA and the leak of her identity did IN FACT disrupt that program. The CIA must think that a law was broken when she was outed because it is the CIA who asked for this investigation. The investigation itself has been completely free of any signs of partisanship.
nutslikebush Says: October 28th, 2005 at 11:49 am
Lug,
Perhaps the problem is with your perception of today’s liberals and not with real liberals. I believe that your understanding of who we are is 180 degrees off and that in truth, the folks that your imaginary mental model of the modern liberal is a fiction fed to you by the conservative media blow hards. The right wing media has to create a wicked monster that they pretend to fight so they can scare you into listening to them (and the commercials that pay their multimillion dollar salaries) and they can pretend to be heros. They and you are fighting windmills though. You have no idea what a real liberal acutally believes. Adios Don Quixote.
nutslikebush Says: October 28th, 2005 at 12:04 pm
Righty,
I suppose you saw Blitzer’s interview with former CIA officer Larry Johnson. Here is the transcript that relates to you previous comments. Judge for yourself whether the CIA considered Val Wilson to be undercover (remember that NOC, non-official cover is the same as “undercover”. NOC agents do not hold a CIA passport when they travel overseas, i.e., they are non-uniform agents, spies, and if captured by a foreign government are in grave danger. This seems to have confused lots of talk show goofballs). Since her outing she and her family have been threatened by al Qaeda.
JOHNSON: To that extent, I don’t know.
But what I do know for certain is, we’re not just talking about Valerie Plame. We’re talking about an intelligence resource, a United States national security resource that was destroyed by these White House officials that went out and started talking to the press about this. Reckless. And they have — they have harmed the security of this country. They’re trying to pretend no harm, no foul, and find lots of excuses.
BLITZER: Let me read to you from a Bob Novak column in “The Chicago Sun-Times” and other newspapers October 1, 2003, a couple of months or so after he revealed her name . . . That doesn’t make it sound like she was very covert.
JOHNSON: Not only does — you know, Bob Novak once again demonstrates he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And that is a lie.
I defy anybody. I have got $5,000 that says that you can’t find a reference to Valerie Plame and the CIA prior to Robert Novak’s column. Can’t do it. The fact that she’s married…
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Well, why would Clifford May say that he knew about it?
JOHNSON: Clifford May has been wrong on a whole variety of things.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: But he’s a respected guy, Clifford May.
JOHNSON: Well, he’s respected by some people. I don’t respect him, because I…
BLITZER: I have known him for many years… JOHNSON: I…
BLITZER: … going back to when he was a reporter for “The New York Times.”
JOHNSON: His information — his information — his information on this issue has been repeatedly wrong.
And, again, I’ll bet Clifford May $5,000. Find the reference prior to Robert Novak’s column in which that information was out there. It wasn’t out there. Not only that. When Valerie wrote that check to Al Gore’s campaign as a member of Brewster-Jennings, she was living her cover. Not a single neighbor knew that she worked for the CIA.
She protected that cover. She was in the process of moving from non-official cover to official cover, but, under the law, official cover still protected.
BLITZER: Because there is some suggestion that she had been outed by other — by Aldrich Ames or others…
JOHNSON: Well, my…
BLITZER: … who were U.S. — were American spies spying for…
JOHNSON: Sure.
BLITZER: … the Soviet Union or other countries.
JOHNSON: My understanding is that, as a result of the Aldrich Ames betrayal, the damage assessment there came up with the possibility that she may have been compromised, so she’s moved back to the United States, home-based here, but continues to operate from here, traveling overseas as a consultant with Brewster-Jennings. So, she was continuing to work overseas.
BLITZER: What about the argument that she was driving in and out of Langley, CIA headquarters, on a daily basis for her job as an analyst in counter — nuclear counterproliferation?
JOHNSON: People saying that just demonstrate their further ignorance of the CIA.
At least 40 percent of the people driving through those gates every day are undercover. They are — sometimes, they are here in the United States for two or three assignment. Then they go back overseas. Their acknowledged relationship with the CIA is unacknowledged. They’re presumed to work for some other U.S. government agency. Their covers are backstop.
So, just because they are driving through the gates there doesn’t mean that they’re not undercover. I was out there for four years driving through the gates. I was undercover until I day I left. And the only one who knew I worked with CIA was my wife . . .
BLITZER: Were you surprised that, after her name was revealed, that she posed for pictures, that famous picture in “Vanity Fair,” that she posed for pictures elsewhere with her husband? . . .
JOHNSON: Yes. With the benefit of hindsight, I don’t think Joe and Valerie would have done that again.
But they also recognized, at the time when they did it, her career had been completely destroyed. And she had received death threats overseas from al Qaeda. So, as a result of that outing…
BLITZER: How do you know she got death threats from al Qaeda?
JOHNSON: I have heard it directly from people that have been told that there was a threat.
BLITZER: Because she is a…
JOHNSON: Because…
BLITZER: … a former CIA operative?
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: … operative and outed by Robert Novak.
There were three people that were identified as having a threat. And she was contacted by the FBI.
nutslikebush Says: October 28th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
and Raw Story reported the following.
Fitzgerald expands probe, believes he can get Rove on more serious charges, lawyers say
10/28/2005 @ 2:22 pm
Filed by Jason Leopold
In one of the boldest moves yet in the 22-month investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent to a handful of top reporters covering the White House, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is extending his probe and pursuing much more serious charges against senior White House o