ROVE MUST GO BEFORE 2008
By Buck Evinger
It’s amazing how the mainstream media and the Democratic Party are working together to prepare for the 2008 election. That’s what the revival of this Joe Wilson/Karl Rove story is all about.
Here is what the liberal media is not telling you.
1. Joe Wilson is a Democratic Party operative with an axe to grind.
2. His “verbal” report to the CIA after his return from Niger supported the Bush position that Iraq had attempted to buy nuclear bomb making materials from Niger.
3. His wife was not a covert operative.
4. Karl Rove did not reveal her name to any journalist.
5. Journalist Bob Novak told Karl Rove who Valerie Plame was.
6. No crime has been commited, by anyone.
7. Many of the same newspapers that are calling for Karl Rove to resign have also filed briefs with the courts saying no crime was commited.
So why is this still a story? Because Karl Rove is going to be a key figure in the next presidential election and since he has kicked the Democrats collective asses for about 20 years now, they need to do anything they can to discredit him.
I love the old line that Harry Truman once said on the election trail. When a support shouted out, “Give ‘em hell, Harry!” He responded, “I don’t give them hell, I just tell the truth and they think it’s hell.”
That’s what Rove does to the Democrats and why he is so effective at fighting them in the political arena. That is also why the Democrats must do what they can to demonize him.
I don’t know who Karl Rove will help guide to the White House in 2008, but whoever it is, you can be sure Democrats are worried that another Rove led campaign will keep them from the White House for another 4 years.
Emory Says: July 20th, 2005 at 3:28 am
What’s really funny is to see liberals who sat quietly through the corruption of the 90’s suddenly speak up and call for the removal of Karl Rove.
Mr. Jack Says: July 20th, 2005 at 4:47 am
Buck, this is quite possibly the most absurd comment towards the Plame case I’ve ever heard. And after hearing the response from idiots in the GOP, that’s saying allot.
Think about it for a minute if this were a tactic by the democratic party to help their nominee in 2008, then the story would have resurfaced in late 2007 to early 2008.
The reason this has re-surfaced is because Judith Miller being sent to jail for not reveling confidential sources, even, when she never published her story about Valerie Plame.
And if I remember right, wasn’t Joe Wilson one of the main REPUBLICAN advocates for the war before he investigated the Niger yellowcake story?
And the media is not bias in favor of the democrats; the media is bias in favor of trying to uncover the truth of this story.
Anna Says: July 20th, 2005 at 11:07 am
The White House learned about Plame from Novak huh? Let’s look at what Novak said.
Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. “I didn’t dig it out, it was given to me,” he said. “They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it.”
That doesn’t mean they necessarily wanted him to publicly identify Plame as a CIA empoyee, but it does not sit very comfortably with the account in Novak’s later column on the subject:
Novak - “During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA’s counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife. It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger.”
Lefty Says: July 20th, 2005 at 11:59 am
Do you remember why Rove was fired from President George H.W. Bush’s second presidential campaign? In case you have forgotten, it was because it was believed he had leaked information to - guess who? - Robert Novak.
joy Says: July 20th, 2005 at 8:23 pm
Two comments:
Mr. Jack,
Watch for my upcoming article on how to recognize spin.
Emory,
That depends on what your definition of “is” is.
Way to cut to the chase.
joy Says: July 20th, 2005 at 8:26 pm
Good to see you’re back, Buck.
joy Says: July 20th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Speaking of Retro News:
Here’s a little quiz -
What really happened at Chappaquiddick?
Did Clinton have sex with that woman? (I know, I know…you want to know “which one?”)
Why did Hillary stand by her…um…er…’man’?
(Answer coming in 2008?)
Where oh where did that ‘football’ go?
(Hint-Slick Willie doesn’t know either)
Why did witnesses against Clinton die?
Who hires character ass ass ins?
What is the ratio of dirt on Republicans quickly uncovered by the media to dirt on Democrats quickly uncovered by the media in the last…oh, say…20 years?
Who are the Supreme Court nominees that have passed the Democratic gauntlet without character ass ass in our nation attempts? By whom were they nominated?
Who are the Swift boat vets?
Which tape does Hillary not want us to remember?
(It has to do with sex,drugs and big Party names)
How many questions did the media ask Clinton regarding his alleged rape of Juanita Broaddrick?
Who is quoted as saying “We are the President”?
Under what circumstances did Clinton, as President, say “”We need to move beyond partisanship and get on with the business of the country,” ?
Short memories do not a clear conscience make for the libs and dems leaders.
charlie Says: July 21st, 2005 at 5:11 am
1. Joe Wilson is a Democratic Party operative with an axe to grind. - Hardly, he gave money to Bush’s 2000 campaign. I doubt if a DNC operative would do that.
2. His “verbal” report to the CIA after his return from Niger supported the Bush position that Iraq had attempted to buy nuclear bomb making materials from Niger. - WRONG! It was IRAN not IRAQ. Get your facts straight.
3. His wife was not a covert operative. - The CIA seems to have a different opinion than you.
4. Karl Rove did not reveal her name to any journalist. - Irrelevant, the law states “identity” not name.
5. Journalist Bob Novak told Karl Rove who Valerie Plame was. - Maybe. This is based on a leak from Karl Rove’s legal team on Rove’s grand jury testimony. Considering that Rove’s been lying for two years, this really isn’t credible.
6. No crime has been commited, by anyone. - Call Fitzgerald, apparently he’s an idiot that needs to be enlightened by someone sitting at home at a computer.
7. Many of the same newspapers that are calling for Karl Rove to resign have also filed briefs with the courts saying no crime was commited. - Who cares? Even if true, so what? If what he did was “technically” not a crime, he should still resign because he leaked secrets during a time of war. He can’t be trusted.
Lefty Says: July 21st, 2005 at 9:42 am
Today’s Washington Post has a story you need to read. State Memo on Plame Stamped “Secret”
Walter Pincus and Jim VandeHei of the Washington Post have dug around and discovered that the State Department memo mentioning Valerie Plame (Wilson) as a CIA operative is itself stamped “Secret” and makes it clear she is undercover and that the cover should not be blown.
The memo was on Air Force One during a trip to Africa and may be the way that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby found out about Plame. That it says “Secret” on it singlehandedly gets rid of all kinds of false assertions of the Republican noise machine, that Plame’s identity as an undercover operative was widely known, etc.
Rove and Libby later outed Plame to the press, hoping to discredit Wilson by doing so.
On the other hand, that Pincus and VandeHei have to go to so much trouble to prove that the identity of a CIA operative working on Weapons of Mass Destruction was secret and shouldn’t have been blown by Rove is a tribute of sorts to Rove the master of spin and propaganda.
Lefty Says: July 22nd, 2005 at 2:54 am
Tomorrow’s Wall Street Journal will report that the memo that Powell showed to Rove and Liddy on Air Force One about Valerie Wilson (revealing her identity as a CIA covert operative) was stamped TOP SECRET. No wonder Rove doesn’t want anyone to know that he learned about Valarie Wilson’s from that memo and leaked it to the press. Treasongate.
Lefty Says: July 22nd, 2005 at 4:12 am
Wow. Yikes. According to the Bloomberg article, sources familiar with the testimonies of reporters to the grand jury, Novak says he didn’t tell Rove about Plame and Tim Russert said he didn’t tell Libby about Plame (aka Valerie Wilson). But Libby and Rove told the grand jury different stories. My oh my. Poor “Scooter” and “Turd Blossom.”
Mr. Jack Says: July 22nd, 2005 at 6:44 am
charlie, where did you get the information about Iran yellowcake?
Mr. Jack Says: July 22nd, 2005 at 7:09 am
Joy, I want to add to your trivia, this may not be as retro as yours, but it helps to balance it out a bit, yours seemed a little one sided.
Which is worse? Cheating on your wife? Or lying to a country about why you went to a war that’s bringing back friends, sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters, back home in body bags, and will continue to do so for the next 12 years?
What is the ratio of democrats compared to republicans have been in the white house in the last 20 years?
Under what circumstances did Bush, as President, say, “”We need to move beyond partisanship and get on with the business of the country,”
How many of Clintons nominees made it passed his republican congress?
How come when ever credible information that apposes the president comes out, you have a rapid-fire response team all over 24-hour cable news ready and eager to shoot it down, repeating the same “it’s anti-American” rhetoric over and over and over?
Lefty Says: July 22nd, 2005 at 11:39 am
Joy,
Regarding #7. A couple of them are true. Several are proven frauds (e.g., the swifties). Certainly none of your points form a defense of the clowns who are currently in power. Perhaps the lesson is, don’t get attached to any political party (I favor that approach) and don’t let anyone off the hook.
Anna Says: July 23rd, 2005 at 10:30 am
The special prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation has shifted his focus from whether White House officials violated a law against exposing undercover agents to determining whether evidence exists to bring perjury or obstruction of justice charges, according to people briefed in recent days on the inquiry’s status, the Los Angeles Times reports Saturday
Anna Says: July 23rd, 2005 at 4:43 pm
Nice summary in the Guardian about the misleading testimony by Rove and Libby can be found here. http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1534684,00.html
The biggest problem we face in politics today is that one side (that is represented by the likes of Rove, FoxNews, Washington Times, American Spectator, Limbaugh, “Swiftboat Vets” etc) are willing to lie for political gain. They screw everything up for us all.
Anna Says: August 2nd, 2005 at 4:20 am
Buck,
I have noticed that you never retract your errors. Perhaps there are too many of them and doing even minimal fact checking is beyond you. You parrot the crap that Faux News and the Limbaugh Junkies (oops, he actually is a junkie. I almost forgot.) put out. How can you accept such poor information. Abandon politics and pursue truth instead.
jeff Says: August 6th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
Anna the biggest problem we have is that peoplelike you convict people based on their political affiliation. Clinton was a confessed lier (under oath) and an investigation abstuctor. Rove hasnt been charged with anything yet and you have alredy found him guilty. Anna your obvious double standard is why clear minded americans dont vote for you or your party. If you ever get to the real world…….welcome aboard!
Anna Says: August 7th, 2005 at 11:53 pm
Jeff,
You have to admit that the evidence looks pretty bad for Rove and Libby. Indeed, this has been a long time coming but finally the bad guys (i.e., the ones you are pulling for) are going to get what they deserve.
Anna Says: August 8th, 2005 at 1:45 am
Jeff,
you also have to admit that if a democratic administration was responsible for leaking the identity of a CIA operative to sabotage that operative’s husband republicans would be demanding the heads of everyone who knew anything about the leak. And they would be right in doing so. I think that it is you who is living in the fantasy world.
Anna Says: August 8th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
Jeff,
It seems to me that it is you who has the double standard. If you were an honest person you’d want to see the Bushies pay for all of the the lies they have fed the american people - not the least of which was lying out right about their justification for invading a foreign country (which is a radical, anti-conservative thing to do by the way). Bush is no friend of truth or decency.
Paul Says: August 12th, 2005 at 8:29 pm
Snooze fest USA. Boring et al. Politics as usual.
Hey Buck, I agree with you, but I find myself struggling to care. Let ‘em push to get rid of Rove, then they can concentrate to find weakness or dirt on the next human on the list. Talk about looking for dirt, do any of you lefties care to comment about the New York Times trying to get Robert’s children’s adoption papers? Talking about lower than gutter scum. But hey, it’s all good isn’t it, becuase you hate him don’t you Daughter of Sam? What about you Antilla the Hun? What happened to civility in politics? Oh wait, I know, you did it first, naa, naa, naa.
By the way Antilla, I am impressed by your footnotes that are coming with your posts. You are writing some good stuff. I disagree with most of it, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t say your posts are definately becoming better reading material.
Mr. Jack Says: August 15th, 2005 at 12:08 am
Paul, I never said I hated Karl Rove. I just disagree with him. For instance outing a CIA operative isn’t good no matter what the reason. And I agree with you, the New York Times has no right looking into adoption papers for exploitation. Hell no one has any right to exploit personal information for his or her own personal gain.
And to answer your question about civility in Politics, there’s really no such thing anymore, hasn’t been for a while now, both sides seem content only when bashing each other into oblivion. Sometimes over the dumbest things. For instance, every time the president takes a vacation, certain people have a heyday and bash him for leaving the white house too much. When they fail to realize that the president is always connected with the white house. While I agree he doesn’t NEED that many vacations, bashing him for it is quite frankly just plain stupid. The Republicans are just as bad, bashing the democrats for having millionaires in congress, while they themselves have millionaires in several high offices.
To me, the whole game of politics is exhausting as no one cares about how to solve the issue; all they care about is blaming some one else for them. This Article being the perfect example, Buck seems to have no interest on what to do now that Plame’s name is out to the media, he seems only interested in blaming the mess on the opposite party and calling it a conspiracy to get votes in 2008.
And thank you Paul for noticing my foot notes, I hope you follow up on some of them, that is after all why they’re there. And by the way, what is your thought on my North Korea Post? I can seem to find no right wing opinion on it, I’ve asked Joy for hers since she has a better record of trying to solve issues other than blame others, but she never commented on it.
Anna Says: August 15th, 2005 at 2:57 am
The Rove matter is strictly being pursued at the request of the CIA. High crimes may be boring but they are important too.
Paul Says: August 17th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Wow, you are right Anna, outing a CIA operative is treason against the state. Why, we oughta shoot him. That’s what your “glorious freedom fighters”, the communists, would do. Though I find Rove’s actions (which we don’t know the full details on) to be despicable political manuevering which should cost him his job (if, IF he is guilty), I certainately would not classify that as a “high” crime. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Anna Says: August 18th, 2005 at 1:37 pm
Paul,
I am against shooting Rove. Remember, I am against violence (that’s one of many reasons that I don’t like Bush). Since most of the pro-violence types are Bush supporters, I reckon that there will be no volunteers to shoot Rove. Revealing CIA classified information most certainly is a high crime. Perjury and obstruction of justice in matters pertaining to leaks of classified information and breaches of confidentiality are not good things either. Either Rove is guilty or Matt Cooper is lying. This mole hill is perhaps even worse than Reagan’s clandestine weapons deals with Iran (in violation of a congressional directive not to) and illegally providing money and weapons to his murderous villians friend the Contras (Reagan had horrible taste in friends). Mole hills are lies one tells about one’s sex life to people who have no business asking about your sex life (i.e., anyone you are not married to). You turds impeach people over your opponents’ mole hills and ignore the real mountain in your own back yard.
As for your other question regarding the will of the people in Vietnam. In the earliest days of the vietnamese struggle to throw off the French colonial rulers, there was strong popular support for independence by the vietnamese people. September 2, 1945 - Japanese sign the surrender agreement in Tokyo Bay formally ending World War II in the Pacific. On this same day, Ho Chi Minh proclaims the independence of Vietnam by quoting from the text of the American Declaration of Independence which had been supplied to him by the OSS — “We hold the truth that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. These are undeniable truths.”
Ho, the president of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, pursues American recognition but is repeatedly ignored by President Harry Truman.
In 1946 May-September - Ho Chi Minh spends four months in France attempting to negotiate full independence and unity for Vietnam, but fails to obtain any guarantee from the French. The French send 500,000 troops to re-establish French control of vietnam. When the US committed to supporting France in their struggle to maintain a colony. Kennedy comments on America’s commitment to Vietnam “If we withdrew from Vietnam, the Communists would control Vietnam. Pretty soon, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaya, would go…”. Millions of vietnamese peasants all over vietnam provided support to N. Vietnamese army and maintain the Ho Chi Minh trail (the will and the people to which I referred in my previous post). You know the rest of the story. Kennedy was dead wrong on every prediction and although the US defeated the N. Vietnamese army in every battle, vietnam still was not conquored by the US. The reason is that so many vietnamese people craved independence that they were willing to do anything to defeat the occupiers. 60,000 americans died trying to keep the vietnamese from gaining independence from France. Today Vietnam is united and independent, it’s people are living in freedom, and it’s economy is thriving.
Joy Says: August 19th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Anna,
You’re smart…yet foolish. You’ve been gifted with intelligence that you’re wasting on swill.
I keep reminding myself of your age, because it’s prettttty darn clear that you believe every radical propaganda piece that comes down the pipe. You seem to keep going to the same cesspool to fish for ‘information’ and then tossing the swill bucket here. For being against violence, there’s an awful lot of animosity and anger coming through while your spewing on this site. Maybe you don’t recognize the violence in yourself. At any rate, I hope your wisdom will begin to match your intelligence - then you’ll be a positive force to be reckoned with. Vaya con Dios. Adieu.
Anna Says: August 19th, 2005 at 10:25 pm
Joy,
Interesting, but vacuous, critique of me and my views that you offered in your comment. So that I may have the opportunity to address the points on which we disagree would you be so kind as to be specific about what you take issue with in my comments. For example, I can document everything that I said in 26 and demonstrate that it is historically and factually accurate. Don’t blame me if you don’t know the history of american conflicts.
Anna Says: August 20th, 2005 at 3:30 am
Paul and Joy,
Since I don’t know if you are familiar with the history of the vietnam war perhaps we should start with a simple warm-up quiz. I will give you a question and you give me the answer. True or False - The Gulf of Tonkin incident was a sham. You can use actual history books to help you out. I suggest a visit to a good library for some background reading.
Joy Says: August 22nd, 2005 at 4:23 pm
Anna,
I’ll not limit my words this time, and hopefully it’ll be darn clear what I’m saying by what I’ve said and not by what I haven’t said.
Regarding post #26 and -
Ahem…The Points in Which We Differ:
1. “I am against violence” - yet your verbal violence belies you.
2. “Most of the pro-violence types are Bush supporters” - which explains why most run-of-the-mill felons support Democratic candidates.
3. “Perjury and obstruction of justice in matters pertaining to leaks of classified information and breaches of confidentiality are not good things either.” which is why Clinton should be in prison.
4. “Mole hills are lies one tells about one’s sex life to people who have no business asking about your sex life (i.e., anyone you are not married to)” Which, of course, means that rapists,child molesters, seriel killers and other perverts are in the right to refuse to answer questions asked them by someone other than their spouse…unless - uh oh…um, what if they’re not married?
And I’m just getting started. I’m working my way to your Vietnam view. History and education did not begin and end with your history books. I’ll be addressing some real issues, so put your tap shoes on, kiddo, cause you’ll be needing them.
To be continued…
Joy Says: August 22nd, 2005 at 6:07 pm
Anna,
Now, for the Vietnam war:
1. You stated “In the earliest days of the vietnamese struggle to throw off the French colonial rulers, there was strong popular support for independence by the vietnamese people.” and your source is……any of those vietnamese people your speaking of? Perhaps you’ve done extensive research through interviews with the vietnamese who actually lived there at the time. Perhaps you’ve read first-hand accounts by the people themselves to know that what you’re stating as fact is, indeed fact and not some unattached historian’s ‘take’ on the sequence of events.
2. You stated “Ho Chi Minh proclaims the independence of Vietnam by quoting from the text of the American Declaration of Independence which had been supplied to him by the OSS – ‘We hold the truth that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. These are undeniable truths.’”…
and, of course, being a strong believer in God and His Statutes, as well as the American way of life - as demonstrated in his subsequent dealings with his fellow countrymen - it was very believable that Ho Chi Minh was sincere in this statement. But, the big bad French, British and US didn’t happen to find it believeable, and refused to give way so that Ho Chi Minh could become a tyrant with their blessing. Now I don’t mean that all the intentions of the French, British and American leaders at this time were honorable…but they certainly are NOT the villians in this play…which is obvious to anyone looking at the whole truth, rather than regrouping facts to suit their agenda.
Poor little Vietnam - stuck under French ‘rule’as a free state rather than freed to be tortured and killed by an example of evil personified. Poor poor veitnamese people who couldn’t “throw off French colonial rulers” with Western blessing in exchange for a yoke so much heavier that thousands would die under it. Bad bad Western leaders for selfishly trying to better their images (I’m being sarcastic) while keeping the wonderful communist dream at bay. Glorious, wonderful communism that has worked so well so many times for so many countries - finally got a chance to show it’s true strength…ooops. Problems. Hmph! They’re all due to those nasty old Westerners poking their collective nose into the poor little country’s business. What? The Soviet Union and China were supporting who? Well, that’s because they care so much about the Vietnamese people being treated as EQUALS. That’s obvious by their own governments, isn’t it? Why look, they’re trying to work it out without war first. Aren’t they nice? Isn’t that a good example for those stinky old French, British and Americans? Good good Chinese and Soviet Union government for supporting the needs of the people in this poor little country being smothered by free state ‘rule’. Yes, and as history (not the books, mind you, but the actual happening) shows, Ho Chi Minh meant every word of his statement regarding the equality of man, and the Vietnamese people were all the better for his rule.
Slight problem. My many vietnamese personal friends don’t think so. They were there and now they are here…though not all of them - because some of their families were killed.
So, Anna - when you are rudely awakened out of your bubble where you are surrounded (voluntarily or by force, I don’t know which) by rearranged facts to show how evil America is - and find out that real people in real life who lived and presently live in the situations you so comfortably seethe over on your computer..that those real people prove your statements as misguided at best and outright lies.
I’ll continue with more facts - but they won’t be re arranged to make anyone look good…they’ll just be layed out.
In closing; people will never be perfect thus leaders will never be perfect thus governments will never be perfect, but America and other truly free countries are a damn sight better than those useless leaders of countries who treat their own countrymen the way Ho Chi Minh (and Chinese leaders, and Cuban leaders, and North Korean leaders and Soviet leaders, etc)treat(ed) theirs. I’m tired of the swill and I honestly hope you quickly tire of it too.
Lug Says: October 25th, 2005 at 11:07 pm
Hey Lefties! Some sound advice!
1. Let go of the Viet Nam War
2. The 60’s are over…Ward Chuchill is irrelavant!
3. Try to come up with some solutions instead of Bush bashing…he’s not running for re-election
4. The 2000 and 2004 elections were not stolen…..get over it!!!
5. You can’t win an election using abortion and same sex marriages as your
agenda!!
6. Listen to Zell Miller and read his book….he knows how to save your party!
Jack Antilla Says: October 26th, 2005 at 10:46 pm
lug. why oh my must you be such a hipocrate? you tell liberals to perpose solutions to problem instead of bashing bush, yet in a coment previous to this you say John Kerry Is a traitor, and every democrat in america is screwing up the country among other things. Instead of bashing liberals, try having an intelegent conversation with them, and perpose your own solutions.
oh, and Zell Miller is a religious nut, I would trust him as far as I could throw him.
Bush LB Says: April 12th, 2006 at 5:54 am
All you need to do is add a “nan-nee-nan-nee-poo-poo” at the end, and we’d be right back in 4th grade.