THE FACTS ON IRAQ

I love it when liberals like to argue with “facts” on their side because their so called facts are usually wrong, half-truths or just flat out lies. This is especially true with the war on Iraq. Putting aside the arguments about whether or not we should have gone, we are there, now. That is an undisputable fact. With that being the case, we as a nation should look at how we are doing, what we are accomplishing and is it worth the price in lives we are paying. Unfortunately, this is where liberals can’t stand the heat. When you look at the facts, by any measure, we are winning in Iraq. The Iraqi people are better off. The world is a safer place.

Consider the following FACTS, objectively, and make your own judgements about “how we are doing” in Iraq. The following information is a gathered by Oxford Research International in two seperate polls. One conducted in early 2004, then again at the end of 2005. These polls covered all of Iraq’s major regions and demographic groups.

Asked to compare their current lives with their lives under Saddam, Iraqis reported an improvement in availability of necessities such as clean water, health care and education. They also reported an improvement in overall economic wellbeing. They reported that local governments had improved.

Asked what form of government they hoped to live under going forward, democracy won handily: four-to-one over the rule of one-man, and ten-to-one over totalitarianism.

Iraqis list security as their most pressing problem. But a plurality of Iraqis feel safer now than under Saddam, and a majority feel safer from ordinary crime. Moreover, better than 60 percent feel personally safe in their neighborhoods.

Iraq Body Count. an antiwar group that keeps a running tally of Iraqi civilian deaths, reports that the daily toll under the occupation falls in the range of 25 to 28 per day. But under Saddam’s rule, the death toll averaged three times that, including 600,000 civilian executions recorded by the Documental Center for Human Rights, and the 100,000 Kurds killed during the Anfal operation.

Coalition casualties have declined by 27 percent in 2005. They have declined by 62 percent in 2006, measured against the comparable period of 2005.

The insurgent strategy of targeting Iraqi police and army units peaked in July of 2005. Since then, casualties among those units have declined by 33 percent.

Attacks on other soft targets are also down. For instance, there were 146 strikes against the oil infrastructure in 2004, compared to 101 in 2005.

One year ago, March 2005, the number Iraqi boots on the ground — police and army units — surpassed those of Coalition forces.

From March of 2005 to September of 2005, the number of civilian tips informing on insurgents increased from 483 to 4,700, as numerous Sunni tribes declared outright war on al Qaeda.

Fifty-eight percent of Iraqis feel threatened by terrorists, compared with 10 percent who feel threatened by Coalition troops. And by 71 percent to 9 percent, Iraqis believe that their own security forces — Iraqi security forces — are winning the fight against terror.

We are building schools and businesses, we are rebuilding the environment. The government of Iraq, consisting of people from all walks of life, religious beliefs and regions, is growing more and more efficient. WE ARE WINNING!

Our most daunting task in this war on terror is defeating the enemies at home.

Posted by Buck on March 13th, 2006 in Articles |

232 Responses to “THE FACTS ON IRAQ”

nutslikebush Says: March 14th, 2006 at 3:07 am

I wish this were true. Sincerely.
nutslikebush Says: March 14th, 2006 at 3:41 am

According to Iraqbodycount.org about 34,000-37,000 civilians have died since the US invasion began. That’s about 12,000 per year

The Baath Party was in power for about 35 years. About 280,000 died in Iraq under Saddam according to the US government (8000 per year), though it is probably an exaggeration. (The deaths in the Iran-Iraq war cannot all be laid at Saddam’s feet, since he began suing for peace in 1982, but was rebuffed by Khomeini, who insisted on dragging the war out until 1988 in hopes of taking Baghdad and putting the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in power there. Likewise, Mr. Rumsfeld’s offer of support to Saddam and greenlighting of the use of chemical weapons prolonged the war). Note: not saying Saddam was ok, but he was contained, not dangerous to us or his neighbors, and he wasn’t a radical jihadist like the folks who are likely to end up in power in Iraq within a few years. The world is certainly more dangerous as a result of the invasion.

Saddam’s killing sprees were largely over with by the late 1990s, so the rate of death in Iraq now is enormously greater than it was in, say, 2001.

Last week the military commander in charge of Iraqi security was assasinated in Baghdad. It is a bad sign when the Iraqi in charge of security is murdered, isn’t it? The Iraqi security forces are infiltrated by the insurgency (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4266304.stm)

72% of our troops want the US out of Iraq within the next 9 months (www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075).

Unemployment in Iraq is 70% (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A66151CB-2105-418B-BFAA-73211A631611.htm)

And it is the children who are suffering the most (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_id=22840)

The deadline for the new government to convene came and went, and no government was formed. The president demanded that the prime minister step down (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-10-02-iraq-politics_x.htm)

If this is your idea of winning, I’d hate to see how dismal things would have to be for you to realize that things are not going so well. I really wish they were though. More than you can imagine, I actually care about those people.
nutslikebush Says: March 14th, 2006 at 3:52 am

BTW, when I tried to blog a reply to this piece in the National Review, my post is blocked.
nutslikebush Says: March 15th, 2006 at 3:49 am

When I read the recent opinion polls, I must admit that it feels odd to be squarely in the majority again. It gives me the willies. Mainstream is the last thing I want to be. But I it must be a good thing for the general american public to finally start getting the picture about Bush and his band of losers.
nutslikebush Says: March 15th, 2006 at 6:05 pm

Buck,
Your timing has always amazed me. Remember when you said that there wasn’t an oil shortage and about a week later oil prices shot to an all time high? How’s about when you guys declared “Mission Accomplished” 1050 days ago, just before the actual war in Iraq really began. Now you declare that everything is fine and under control in Iraq and we learn that over 500 Iraqis have been murdered in sectarian violence in the last 2 weeks. 87 new corpses were just found today. And that’s just the ones that we are finding. Imagine the vast number of Iraqis who are murdered who we don’t even ever find out about. I think it is safe to assume that we just see the tip of the iceberg from our vantage point here. The deadliest part is out of our view.
nutslikebush Says: March 15th, 2006 at 11:35 pm

but it seems like you don’t even see the tip of the iceberg, much less the rest of the god-forsaken thing.
nutslikebush Says: March 16th, 2006 at 6:24 pm

We (the USA) are now $9 trillion in the hole. That means that every man, woman, and child in the US will have to pony up $30,000 to cover the Bush spending spree. The war in Iraq is estimated to cost $1 to $2 trillion to our economy. Are we getting our money’s worth? I think that it is clear that we have been victims of a failed theory and bad decision-making at the top levels of our government for the past 5 years.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1732997
nutslikebush Says: March 18th, 2006 at 12:07 am

Interesting story on life in Iraq from the perspective of an Iraqi family that the Christian Science Monitor has been following since 2003.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0317/p01s04-woiq.html
nutslikebush Says: March 22nd, 2006 at 3:42 am

So this poor afghan man converts to christianity and the shiites have sentenced him to death for “betraying Islam.” Welcome to the new democracy in Afghanistan. You can take the Taliban out of the Afghan government, but still they kill individuals who don’t obey Sharia law. This also gives you a glimpse of what the future of Iraq holds. We overthrow Saddam, and hundreds, thousands of Saddams move in to take his place. The real war that we are engaged in is one of modern secularism (ie. the west, science, and technology) versus medieval supernaturalism (religious fundamentalism and backwardness). This war can’t be fought with guns and bombs. Only liberal education of the sort envisioned by Thomas Jefferson can prevail. Shooting them makes them stronger. Blowing them up, makes them stronger. Educating them and bringing them into the modern world is the only path to victory in this war.
dumbexperts.com Says: March 23rd, 2006 at 8:17 pm

The thing that is really sad is that liberals are on this death spiral while they continue this immence smear campaign against Bush and the Republicans. All they do is lie bash and attack with useless rhetoric.
nutslikebush Says: March 25th, 2006 at 1:03 pm

here are some statements from Iraqis. You may accuse the Iraqis of being liberal too because you will disagree with their appraisals of what is happening to them. But calling people liberals and liars when they are just forcing you to actually take a look at the truth is a losing strategy. Those of us who want you to see the truth aren’t saying what we are saying because we are liberals. We are saying it because we care about the world and know that FoxNews and talk radio are feeding misinformation to people who need some access to accurate, well-informed information. The fact that FoxNews watchers were the ones who thought that there was a connection between 9/11 and Saddam exemplifies the negative effect that the conservative media is having on the accuracy of information that is reaching their viewers. Bad information + bad theory = disasterous policy. Turn off Fox, Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly and go after real, valid information.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20060324-1016-iraq-talafar.html
nutslikebush Says: April 1st, 2006 at 11:28 pm

Buck, I know you like facts so here’s new fact for you. In March over 900 Iraqi civilians were killed in sectarian violence. The elected Iraqi government is in chaos. Over 80 journalists have been killed in Iraq (and you wonder why they report so much bad news. If they try to move around Iraq at all, journalists are killed or abducted). In the two years since Cheney declared that the insurgency was in its “last throes” things have steadily plummeted into chaos. A failed state is the worst of all possible outcomes for any nation. But that is what Iraq appears to be at this point. As William Buckley put it, our task now is to figure out how to cope with Bush’s failure.
nutslikebush Says: April 3rd, 2006 at 3:29 am

So now Rice and Straw are in Iraq to demand that the democratically elected prime minister of Iraq step down. All those Iraqis go to the polls, risking their lives, and the US and Britain think they can show up under the cover of darkness and demand for the prime minister to be removed. So much for the pride the US had in the purple fingers. Could it be that the US and Britain don’t like Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the democratically elected Iraqi prime minister because he is a self-proclaimed socialist?
Emory Says: April 3rd, 2006 at 3:46 am

I think socialism is the least of their concerns.
nutslikebush Says: April 4th, 2006 at 2:38 pm

Hi Emory,
I agree. I just tossed the socialist comment in to stir the pot.
nutslikebush Says: April 4th, 2006 at 2:53 pm

Want to see what Kuwaitis (our allies?) think about the US occupation of Iraq? check this out.
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-236/0604035089165218.htm
Emory Says: April 5th, 2006 at 1:50 am

That article is published by IRNA, the official news agency of Iran.
nutslikebush Says: April 5th, 2006 at 11:40 am

But the quote was from a Kuwaiti official. Here is an article on the original topic of the US and UK attempting a coup last weekend to oust the democratically elected iraqi prime minister.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1747063,00.html

Warning: The Guardian Unlimited is a British Newspaper (our allies?)
nutslikebush Says: April 6th, 2006 at 7:12 pm

Three things today. First, isn’t the department of homeland security supposed to serve sort of as the world’s best goalie (i.e., nothing gets past these guys. They are “the screeners’ screeners.”)? Do they not screen their own employees? How embarassing - to have a horrible crime going on right under the noses of the DHS and for it to be one of their own.
Second, are you worried about the fact that Russia was feeding the US military invasion plan directly to Saddam as the invasion was unfolding? Does that mean that the Russians have a spy among our generals and top pentagon officals?
Third, remember when Bush said that if he found out who the CIA leaker was he would “take care of them.” Guess who authorized the leak of sensitive information? go here to find out. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/06/AR2006040600333.html
jimbear Says: April 8th, 2006 at 3:31 pm

You know we would not have all these problems if the man in this country had a backbone and stood up for the USA with something stronger than words
nutslikebush Says: April 8th, 2006 at 6:54 pm

Two things today. First, I came across a right-wing radio host saying that Val Plame Wilson was not a covert agent (technically), so no problemo for the Whitehouse outting of her in order to discredit her husband’s (factually acurate) account of the truth about Saddam and yellow cake in Niger. Perhaps I think this radio host should call the CIA and inform them that Plame was not undercover since it is the CIA who requested the investigation into her outting. Maybe the CIA is confused about which of their people are covert and which aren’t. Right-wing talkshow dingbats seem to be the only ones who really know the answers to these technical questions (the blind leading the blind over the cliff). In fact, she was one of the CIA employees in charge of tracking Iran’s development of nuclear weapons (bet Bush didn’t know that when he authorized his guys to kneecap Wilson).
Second, Scooter, I am told, was just passing along some information that had recently (and selectively) been declassified to correct the record. The same informaiton was too sensitive for congress to see and Scooter insisted that Judith Miller not identify her source (him) and to refer to him as a “former Hill staffer.” Interesting way of “correcting the record” and getting the Whitehouse side of the story out. Former Hill staffer? You would think that Bush could just hold a press conference if he wanted to release pertinent information. But, in fact, we all know that the Whitehouse is just pulling our legs again, and again and again……..
nutslikebush Says: April 8th, 2006 at 10:08 pm

Some counterfactual evidence against your theory.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/FRI044110.htm
nutslikebush Says: April 10th, 2006 at 1:11 pm

This article in the current issue of Time magazine vindicates my perceptions of the way the war in Iraq has been waged.
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1181629,00.html
flyingbryan Says: April 11th, 2006 at 3:58 am

The only thing it vindicates is your fasist liberal view point. Time is the biggest liberal propaganda magazine in print.Remember thier story of Clifford Erving–Made up lies–and thier entertainment editor who predicted that John Travolta would fail as an actor?
you state facts from left wing propaganda rags,noboby belives them any more–FACT: in 1970 88%of americans belived what the print and main stream media told them in 2005 that had dropped to just 22%.
Bush LB Says: April 12th, 2006 at 5:50 am

1. Please learn the difference between subjective data and objective data. You cannot present subjective data at fact. Have you no formal education?? 2. When presenting objective data, please cite sources, so that data can be analyzed. Afterall, I could start quoting all kinds of liberal propaganda with all kinds of “objective” data in the opposite direction. Again, have you no formal education?? Sources, sources, sources!!! (By the way, this is EXACTLY why I, a liberal thinker myself, don’t like Michael Moore).
nutslikebush Says: April 12th, 2006 at 7:43 pm

FLyingbryan,
the biggest propaganda machine in the world is the US republican party and the fascists monkeys on the right. You guys are the ones who insert the vast majority of inaccurate information into the system (Limgaugh etc. and the Washington Time news paper owned by the Moonies, American Spectator owned by White Supremicists), which is why the media is so screwed up. If the big corporate media (NBC, CBS, ABC, Time, etc) were interested in bringing the republican party down it would be so easy to do. But in general they have been your collaborators. The media is overwhelmingly conservative in its bias, as one would expect since the major media is purely profit-driven corporation-first capitalism. When anything remotely negative about Bush appears in the media you can be sure it is only the tip of the iceberg and that much worse stuff is there below the surface. The left-wing media is weak (or non-existent), but the right-wing media is corrupt.
nutslikebush Says: April 12th, 2006 at 8:24 pm

By the way, Flyingbryan, I assume that you did not actually read the article that was written by Lt. General GREGORY NEWBOLD, Retired director of operations at the Pentagon’s military joint staff. I don’t think that anyone would consider him a liberal. His article, entitled, “Why Iraq was a Mistake” is particularly worth reading because he gives the inside scoop on how the Bush administration monkeys screwed the entire thing up. You know, Saddam was pretty freaking bad. It is just amazing that Bush could manage to make things in Iraq even worse than Saddam did. Incompetence is the only word to describe the performance of the Bush administration.
nutslikebush Says: April 12th, 2006 at 11:18 pm

FB,
Do you mean Clifford Irvin? Are you sure you are talking about Time and not Newsweek? Clifford Irvin is an author who wrote a hoax autobiography about Howard Hughes. Also, are you dyslexic?
nutslikebush Says: April 13th, 2006 at 1:16 pm

Yo Flyinbryan,
You must have loved yesterday’s interview with Army Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who commanded the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq in 2004-2005. In case you missed it, he said: “We need leadership up there that respects the military as they expect the military to respect them. And that leadership needs to understand teamwork.” So five top generals have over the last four weeks called Rumsfeld incompetent, the war in Iraq an unnecessary diversion from the real war against al-qaeda, and the Bush administration irresponsible with the lives of our troops and Iraqi civilians and a trillion dollars of taxpayer money wasted, or worse. Lesson: Don’t invade a country if you don’t have the means to effectively provide security and stability for the civilian populaiton.
You know, if asparagus was Iraq’s primary commodity, the US military invasion of Iraq would never have happened. No one (except some liberal/humanitarian groups who no one in government ever listens to anyway) in the US would have cared about what Saddam was doing to his people if he hadn’t been sitting on one of the world’s largest oil fields. Clearly the primary plan was to secure access to the middle eastern oil and establish a government there that was friendly to US interests and would let us build military bases in the region. 14 permanent bases have been built in Iraq for our use since the invasion. With the investment of tens of billions of dollars in new military bases there, you can bet you life that Bush has no intentions of our military ever leaving Iraq. But the situation is complicated because now Iraq has had democratic elections and the “wrong guys” won, from the perspective of the US. Iran is thrilled with the results. They owe us for toppling their major adversary in the region, the primary force holding them in stalemate (that’s why Reagan supported Saddam even as he committed mass murder against the Shia and Kurds, by the way. Saddam was seen then as a strategic asset), and handing Iran a sister state ruled by people who spent their exile years in Iran as Ayatollahs (e.g., Sistani). What Bush is experiencing is called the law of unintended consequences. Go back and read the greek tragedies and the history of the rise and fall of civilizations and you can see the same exact story lines unfolding time and again throughout history. The golden ages of Greece and Rome turned toward decline under leadership and circumstances that very much resembled those that the US faces right now. Because Bush is ignorant of history and is the modern poster child for hubris, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the great states that came before us and that now have disappeared into the mist of history.
nutslikebush Says: April 14th, 2006 at 4:38 pm

Update on Generals speaking out against Rumsfeld. Today, according to CCN, the commander who led the elite 82nd Airborne Division during its mission in Iraq has joined the chorus of retired generals calling on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to leave the Pentagon. The Bush administration has always refused to deal with reality, preferring their imagined reality instead. At some point these guys have to start facing up to the facts and quit pretending.
flyingbryan Says: April 16th, 2006 at 4:33 am

dear nutbush
You just dont get it do you–you cant answer the truth I reveal about you with personal insults about my education.You are a fascist.Your belief in your superior intelect and education(you propably have a masters in sociology)is pure nazi like .Fact: the person who invented the term fascist was a former Socialist liberal just like yourself by the name of musollini. Your diatribe is without merit and evidence–you have no facts with witch to back up your arguments–just alot of hot air. Remember what Vice president Humphery said years ago–”when fascisim finally comes to america it will be in the defence of liberalism”.
flyingbryan Says: April 16th, 2006 at 5:06 am

Your old ways are becomming extinct nutbush.your fellow hippies are falling faster than Abey hoffman.The inherent weakness of liberals is apperant to all Americans today–Your boy Clinton was an example of this weakness. He had 8 years to stop the islamofascist before 911. George Bush had only 8 months .It probaly would have been better if Billy bob Clinton would have made osama go to his knees instead of Monica. Millions Died in rawanda at the same time he was getting bjs in the oval office. You think maybe he could of used some of his bj time with monica to help those Africans in desperate need?
Jack Antilla Says: April 16th, 2006 at 9:49 pm

Bryan, shut up and get a history book.

you want correct information? Here’s a crash corse in post Cold war afganistan.

Bin Laden was officially wanted by the United States in connection with the August 7, 1998 bombings of the United States embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, that killed 225 people and injured more than 4000. Since June 1999, bin Laden has been listed as one of the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives and FBI Most Wanted Terrorists.

In response to these attacks, President Bill Clinton ordered a freeze on assets linked to bin Laden. Clinton also signed an executive order authorizing bin Laden’s arrest or assassination. In August 1998, the U.S. military launched an assassination attempt using cruise missiles. The attack failed to harm bin Laden but killed 19 other people. The U.S. offered a US$25 million reward for information leading to bin Laden’s apprehension or conviction and, in 1999, convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him. So don’t blame Clinton for the strength of Al-Quida.

oh, and to hint that mussolini was left wing is stupid as is calling liberals nazis

you know who were nazis? THE NAZIS!

and don’t confuse liberalism with leftism, it’s annoying. Take a poli sci class, I think the basic ones will educate you on how the political spectrum works.

das ist alles, danke.
nutslikebush Says: April 18th, 2006 at 2:36 am

Jack,
I am just writing FlyingBryan off as retarded.
flyingbryan Says: April 18th, 2006 at 9:08 pm

Take a break Jack..you dont have to be a fascist liberal EVERDAY of your life.Fact: Clinton had 3 chances and 8 years to get bin laden.Fact#2, for whatever reason he didn’t get him.One african national leader was going to give bin laden to slick willie on a plater–he refused the offer.Lame after lame excuse, over and over again.But its typical of your average liberals.Because to you liberals america is a sexist racest,homophobic, rotten ,evil bigoted country.Now how can you posibly love and want to DEFEND such a “horrible” place like the u.s.? If I belived what you belive the united states is,I would move to France.Time after time, Americans have spoken out AGINST giving liberals controll over national security for thoses same reasons.you can’t be trusted with our safety.Buy the way the editor of the dailey Worker a left wing LIBERAL newspaper WAS,I repeat WAS Beneito mussolini!!!! GET A CLue JACK,you can’t get more liberal than being the editor of a socialist propaganda rag like the daily worker.You should try reading a history book once in a while instead of wikipedia.
flyingbryan Says: April 18th, 2006 at 9:20 pm

Oh buy the way–All university poly-sci courses are taught by LIBERALS,with text book written buy and for LIBERALS!!!! Conservative poly-sci teachers are as rare as LIberals with morales .Liberals are all for diversity as long as it pertains to the color of your skin or the sex organ between your legs! They become very heated when the diversity is about free thought.The last thing liberals want is freedon of thought and speech–(POLITICAL COrrectness anyone)?
flyingbryan Says: April 18th, 2006 at 9:28 pm

Remember JACKO what Vice president Hubert Humphery said years ago–”when fascisim finally comes to america it will be in the defence of liberalism”.
flyingbryan Says: April 19th, 2006 at 4:26 pm

Thats so typical of libs like you nutbush–You can’t win in the arena of ideas so just like the 4 year old in the sand box you have to resort to calling people names like “retarded”. By the way didn’t you just commit a MAJOR Political Correctness crime for callin me retarded? It’s off to the sensitivity training gulags for you nutbush.
flyingbryan Says: April 19th, 2006 at 4:50 pm

also nutbush– alot of those references you qoute are from libs who write and claim outragoue things to reinforce thier positions. this is how they do it: they or thier like minded liberal friends write books and articles based on thier own OPINIONS.later that same author while writting new articles on the same topic, RETURNS to the same Fallacious books and articles and uses THEM for references and quotes to backup thier new argument!!!!Sounds like “SCIENTIFIC” reasearch to me!!!
nutslikebush Says: April 20th, 2006 at 12:51 pm

No FlyingBryan,
I just genuinely don’t believe that you have the intellectual wherewithall to understand sound reasoning. It may be an educational deficit or it may be that the gears just are not there. But, I fear, for me to try to hold your hand and walk you all the way back to square one to start your education would just not be worth the effort at this point.
nutslikebush Says: April 20th, 2006 at 12:58 pm

Flyingbryan,
so you think that the political science professors at West Point Military Academy, where Jack is a student, are just a bunch of liberals? And the generals speaking out against Rumesfeld are just a bunch of liberals too. You seem to be relatively new to this site. So perhaps you don’t know that Jack is an officer in the military and served in Iraq. Your comments are missing about a year’s worth of context on this site.
MAVERICK7777 Says: April 21st, 2006 at 12:26 am

TO: Jack Antilla (and anybody else that has an opnion)

I was reading some of your posts on starting a 3rd party or getting rid of the 2 Party system. I agree with you totally and am very interested in discussing these ideas. So if anybody has any input about this I would love to hear it. Jack how exactly do you suppose something of this nature could even come about considering the death grip that the rich “Elites” have on this country??? Let the discussion begin…
BlahBlahBlah Says: April 21st, 2006 at 5:38 am

Dear all of you,
Political arguments are the most pointless things currently polluting the earth’s air. Flyingbryan, you seem to feel for your side, and I respect that, but you could do with some citable facts. Nutslikebush, sigh, I read your comments seriously until I saw where you got your facts from. “(http://english.aljazeera.net/” please consider yourself intelligent if you quote terrorist propaganda websites.
flyingbryan Says: April 21st, 2006 at 5:29 pm

Nutbush-How can a “GREAT MIND”like you be so out of it–Pay attention and try openning up your mind to logic and reason.do you honestly believe that the Army,pentagon or west point DON”T have liberals in them? Ever hear of wesley Clark? you can’t get more wacked-out liberal than he is(he’s the one who has those little get togathers with that political expert/singer Madonna).SO WHAT if jack is at west point,it makes no differnces he’s still a lib.Liberals, just like matastisizing carcinomas(thats cancer nutbush),are all over this society. leson in poliitics #101 for you nutbush–whenever a new administration takes over like the clinton regeme did in 1992, they replace key personel or appoint new ones to the goverments instiutions that reflect thier own political viewpoints(like the infamous valerie plane of cia fame, and donna shalally of the dept of health and human services).political hacks get hired and enemies of the current administratuion get fired,demoted or replaced all the time.you know for someone So “intellegent” and “informed” on the current issues you sound pretty out of it about whats going on.Woops! I DONT WANT to drop down to your level of personel attacks and insuts so why dont you stop with the personal attacks on my person and “my time on this site”.This is so typical of you fascist libs–you can’t win with intellect and logic so you always resort to name calling and chidlike putdowns.You like so many of your liberal breathern seem to think ONLY you can decide what people should say and think and believe.ONLY you posess all the knowledge of the universe because you you have a masters degree in sociology! Now tell me nutbush how is that any different than a Hitler or a Mao or any other self descibed “superior Intellect” fascist?
flyingbryan Says: April 21st, 2006 at 5:48 pm

Once again Nutbush Remember what Vice president Hubert Humphery said years ago–”when fascisim finally comes to america it will be in the defence of liberalism”. He was one lib who reconized where his political ideology was headed.Whenever and wherever liberals get into power wheather it be a socialist cuba or its cousin a communist soviet union it has to INSLAVE its people in order to survive.Democracy and CAPITALISM invites freedom of thought and individual rights. communisim could never tolerate and survuve such freedoms.
flyingbryan Says: April 21st, 2006 at 9:10 pm

oh Jacko (or I guess I have to call you Captian Jacko now) check this fact out,in 1997 Billy bob Clinton had a perfect chance to get osama in northern Africa.He clamed later that he could not send a missle down range on bin laden because there was a posibility that he would hit a school near-by.Now here is the sad truth for slick willes lame excuse;Bin laden was in that same location for 21/2 weeks.How many school children do you know weather its in america or any other place got to school for 14 days without any time off?The sad pathetic truth lies in the statement slick willie said to the saudi ambasador on the phone at the same time he was hitting him up for money to buld his presidential library,he said that he did not want to do anything to “upset”the Arabs in the middle east or anyplace else!!!!Clinton was and always will be exactly what he has been all his life–A spinlesss coward.
Jack Antilla Says: April 21st, 2006 at 10:56 pm

oh and furthermore bryan this may come as a shock to you but Im a registered REPUBLICAN. I’ll let you reflect on that for a while while I move on to a more intelectual conversation.

and to MAVERICK7777, sorry for you to have to put up with idots like bryan who show no repect, but such is the sad truth.

as to your comment about starting a 3-party system as aposed to a 2 party system, it’d be virtually impossible.

the party would have to have a huge power base in the media, which requiers large sums of money. it’d have to cover a wide variety of topics as well, and be a very broad ideology more like the democrats and the republicans than narrow focused parties such as the green and reform parties.

as well it’d have to have rich people who know what they’re doing extreamly well.

like i said virtually impossible.
nutslikebush Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 2:37 am

Blah, Blah, Blah
First,may I just call you B? I don’t “get my facts from aljazera.” I do, from time=to-time, read articles published in that journal. Hell I sometimes even read the conservative rags like the Washington Time (the paper owned by the moonies. what is it with moonies and conservatives?), the American Prospect, the American Conservative etc. I cited an article from aljazera because it was written by a Kuwaiti government official who presumably speaks for the Kuwaiti government. You should also know that in the Arab world, aljazera is considered mainstream and not aligned with any terrorist organizations. In the Arab world, arabs believe that FoxNews is controlled by the Bush administration and is pure conservative propaganda - imaging that.
nutslikebush Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 2:46 am

FB,
what is your thing with Hubert Humphrey. He was hardly an outstanding political figure. Also, fascism is the opposite of liberalism. Liberalism is fundamentally supportive of individual human freedom (i.e. to liberate or set free). It is anti-oppression. It is also strongly supportive of free-market capitalism as an economic system. For classic examples of political liberals, see Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln (I know, Lincoln was a Repulican - back when the Republican party was the liberal party). American democracy was invented by liberals (ALL of the founding fathers of this country were liberals) and liberals have been the strongest defenders of democracy ever since. Conservatives are the major threat to democracy (i.e., checks and balances, legitimate elections, personal privacy and freedom - “Patriot” act). At the first signs of danger, conservative cannabalize every democratic institution and principle , killing democracy to save it. As for Clinton not assasinating Bin Laden in the 1990s, remember that Reagan and Bush Sr. supported Bin Laden in the Afghan war against the Soviets. They created Bin Laden’s mujahadin.
nutslikebush Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 3:19 am

Here is a rebuttal of Flyingbryan’s inaccurate rumors regarding Clinton.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm
zootpotato Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 4:27 pm

The problem with your above facts, Buck, is that you are being no worse then the liberals you so desperatly try to put down.

Sure, what you say above may be true, but you are clearly leaving out facts that would hurt your attempt to spin the war on Iraq. Facts that show any sort of negativity are missing for your post, and you’re left looking unrealistic and, honestly, out-of-touch with the war that you think we’re winning.

And finally, what’s all this with liberals and fascism? Fascism is known as being extreme right-wing, opposite to socialism’s left-wingedness. If fascism were in this country, they wouldn’t support conservatives nor liberals because they’re be too moderate. However, if I had to pick one that they’d support, I’m willing to bet they’d be more likely to support their fellow right-wing Republican party.
zootpotato Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 4:33 pm

Oh, and I meant to say that Buck is “no better” then the liberals he puts down.

And the reason I say that is because both Buck and some liberals selectivly use facts to spin their view on things.
flyingbryan Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 6:11 pm

Capt Jacko you keep proving my point that you and your “SUPPERIOR INTELLECT” comrads like nutbush are fascist,when you have to tell maverick not to listen to me.you ALWAYS have to revert to your old standby of namecalling as well.If your opinions are in fact correct, cant they stand on thier own without you trying to degrade and silence my opinions? OH thats right THEY cant stand on thier own because time after time I keep shooting them down. its always the same with you facsist, whomever has the courage and honesty to disagree with your holy-than-thou-superiour minded propaganda and has discredited you in the arena of ideas must be silenced or deraded!.Also who cares if your a republican–ever hear of bill maher that left wing wacked out job on HBO?That guy says hes one too but all his stands are to the left of howard dean and lenin.GIVE ME A BREAK!!Your idea of respect is for me to bow down on my knees and worship hipocrates and facsist like you and nutbush simply because YOU SAY somethig is true.I think that defines what arrogancy is all about.just listen to nutbush preaching again.Nutbush honestly–WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?Really now tell me.YOu have the unique ability to billow the bigest bag of hot air in country!!!Sience when did you become an EXPERT on what is considerd Main stream in the arab world,becuase “TIME “mag.tells you so?You really don’t believe that we are buying any of your crap do you? Your just a little man with a keybord and a subscibtion to Time mag.You have no IDEA and cant posibly ever know what the arab world thinks,(demonstrated once again when you said that The KUWAITY official “PRESUMABLY speaks for the kuwaiti GOV.,)HOW the hell could you posibly know that!!!THats what your problem is nutbush you presume and assume about everything!!Remember when you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME.
flyingbryan Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 6:37 pm

Okay listen up nutbush one more time,–FACSISTISM came out of and was invented by bonieto mussolini.You cant claim facsistism has nothing to do with liberals when its inventor used to be a liberal .Mussolini was the editor of the left wing LIBERAL newsrag “the daly worker” in the first part of the 20th century,now how can you get more liberal than that.Think about it nutbush what was the name of HITLERS party?thats right,the national SOCIALIST WORKERS Party,not the the national FACSIST workers party.If only you knew as much about history as you calm to you would of known that the nazi’s combined elements of socialisim(it was all the rage in the 1920’s! ) with nationalist ideology,hence national socialest workers party.You lberals sufer from the same fuzzy vision of reality as well when you say that AL Quaida and the war on terror in IRAQ have nothing in common.well check this out: the number 2 man in al quaida was in IRaQ for 14 months before the first american troops arrived. he heads up the main oppisition to the american and iraq army in this war of libertation from the murderess tyrant hussain. His group is responsable for most of our causaulties in this war.NOW guess what the name of his organizintion is nutbush—AL QUIDA of IRAQ!!not al quida of des moines or al quiada of Cinncinatti,but al quida of IRAQ.
flyingbryan Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 7:56 pm

Your right nutbush when you say america was founded by liberals. But what you didn’t say is what the liberals were like THEN as opposed to NOW.Party philosophies and posistions change over the years.Remember the party of oppresion and SLAVERY before the civil war was the Democrats!now to be fair to the demented DEMS of today thats no longer the case .So people’s ideas and philosophies change over time.

back to the middle east.The main reason the arabs hate us is because we suport/bankroll and maintain the jewish state of isreal.However,the beginnings of our dirty dealings with sadam goes back to the time of your buddy Jimmy “the wimp” Carter He was the one who started it all when He got the iranians Hopping mad at us by allowing the former dictator and king of Iran into the united states.Thats right it was none other than that rabit fighter himeself,Jimmy Carter.YOu remember him don’t you nutbush ? he was that great liberal president that gave us double digit inflation ,huge gas lines and shortagers of just about everything.and lets add to that the humiliation of having our hostages taken in iran.The Iranians warned us weeks in advance NOt to give the fleeing dictator a place to live and seek medical treatment for his cancer, but jimmy did it anyway.Makes you wonder what kind of secrete deal Carter had going with the shaw.He planted the seeds of discontest we have with the irianians to this day.(some even say thier cuurent leader was one of the original hostage takers).Lesson :NO shaw allowed into the U.S.,no hostages would of been taken.So you see nutbush Carter created our future policy of helping sadam wage war on the same iranians that humiliated us back in 79′.and also nutbush what have you been Smoking?(I know you and your fellow hippie libs love WEED!),when you make a totally false staement that we created the mujaudiem.
History leson #15 for nutbush The mujaudiem created the mujaudiem to fight the liberal/socialist Soviet union when they invaded and killed more than 1.3 millon of there people.

By the way lets all compare which system is the most evil and tyranical shall we.Lets see How many innocent lives were lost in the last century due to the conservative and liberal phlosophies?

Conservative capitalist adolph hitler–20 to 25 millon.
Liberal socialist/communist Stalin—30to35 millon.
liberal socialist /communist MAO dictator of China—70to75mllion.

Oh and lets not forget your friend Jane fondas lovable Veitnameses–1.3 millon and of course your socialist buddy POL POT– 2.4 milolon

NOW lets see which system IS responable for the most human suffereing? Lets DO THE Math boy and girls.

Hitler slime- Commie butchers-
25 millon 113.7 million
Oh yea I can see how you believe democracy and capitalism is the worst for of goverment!!!!!!!
flyingbryan Says: April 22nd, 2006 at 8:06 pm

also nutbush –do you serously believe that anyone accually believes anything that The lib web site Snopes has to say–Come on.
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 12:18 am

You see nutbush I don’t blame you for following the lock-step liberal propaganda party line–how can you not!Im in my mid 50’s and I have NEVER known a time in my life when we had a conservative culture.From our education system(with the exception when I very young)to our Main stream news television media,print media or motion picture industry, BIG Media as some like to call it now,Liberals have always dominated and silenced any one who disagreed with them.(sounds pretty diverse to me!) Remember edward R morrow(probably not)he was back in the 1950’s as well–thats how far back the liberals have controlled almost everything we see and read untill very recently.it Turned out that he had almost everything wrong about “Mcarthyism”. We didn’t find out the truth untill the soviet union collapsed under the weight of its rotten foundation when a kgb general who happened to be the former chief of the America espionaige Bureau told the world the truth about that entire era.It seems ED baby was flat out wrong when he claimed that there was no such thing as 100 soviet spies in the state department or dept. of the army,THere were 400 acording to the comrade general!!!Thats right nutbush 400 not 100,how about thoses apples? and guess what,Julus and ethel rosenberg WERE spies(although the information they told the soviets was useless)they still served has a terrific propagada tool for the REDS. acccording to the General the russians couldn’t of PAID for the kind of publicity it got for free From CBS and you buddy ed murrow!!

It takes a certain kind of person to question authority and ask questions.This is why I keep bringing up Hubert Humphrey,he saw way back then where the liberal group think was headed and tried to warn us.Its the same as IKE’s “military industrial Complex”speech except that the current threat is not from Big bussines as you have been programed to believe but from the greater threat of BIG MEDIA( its almost impossible to get accurate news anymore because of the incredibly BIAS news media)He was of course marginalized by the powers that be.It took many,many years of practical experence and fact finding before i got to get to the real truth. (thats right nutbush I used to be a wacked-out lib just like you and Capt.jacko!Why do you think I know how you operate?)You see people can always have thier own set of opinions,NOT there own set of FACTS!Whats true is true.whats real is real.Nixon lied,but so did clinton.thats the reality they BOTH LIED!!there is no difference from dick nixon,who lied to protect his presidentcy,and Slick willie clinton who lied to protect his presidentcy (and also his cheating on his wife,don’t forget)For whatever reason they both lied.May the truth set you free someday NUTBUSH!!!
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 1:59 am

The media continued… you see nutbush we(meaning the conservative voice)have very little access to the main stream of america.Once again lets do the math..Conservative entities with national access to the American people,Fox news channel,rush limbaugh,bill orielly, shaun hannity,Dr.Laura.

now lets do the LIberals–New york times, boston globe,la times ,chicago tribune,houston chronicle,san fransisco chronicle,Time mag.,newsweek mag.,CBS,PBS,NBC,ABC,CNN,MSNBC,CNBC,Headline News,National public radio,air america, etc.etc.etc…THats only a partial list.SEE what I mean?
This is also why air america has to PAY stations to air its programs instead of the other way around,–There are only a certain amount of liberal listeners to go around!Remember liberals only make up 16-18% of the population,Conservatives have twice that amount making up 38-42%.So you have 20 or 30 different media outlets compeating for only 16% of the population–your going to be spread pretty thin any way you look at it.But because thier are way more consevatives than liberals,and fewer conservative outlets ,you produce massive viewership ratings compared to the liberal outlets.(this is why Fox news pulls in more viewers than cnn.headline news ,csnbc,cnbc COMBINED!!!

But there is a reason that you libs can’t figure this out,You can’t see your thru own falicies.There was a study released last week that nails it on the head.In it they asked both conservatives and liberals if they could in fact spot bias.Both liberals and conservatives had no problem spotting bias on the other side of the isle–Libs could point out fox news ,conservatives could point out CBS news etc.It was only when they were asked to point out thier OWN bias newsprograms and personalities that major differences occured.Where as 75% of conservayives could spot conservative bias(rush limbaugh,fox news,)ONLY 22% of liberals could spot liberal bias(michel more,dan rather,air america etc,)This is whats so scarry about you guys–You are so hyptonotized by your own propaganda that you accually BELIEVE everything it tells you is 100% true!!!
The last time an entire portion of the population so blindly followed a political movement like this was THE NAZI’S in the 1930’s.(this is why I refer to you extreamist as fascist–THIS IS WHAT HITLER WAS all about!
Jack Antilla Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 5:38 am

no bryan my idea of respect is not autocract. Have some since of honor and don’t disrespect me or my title as an officer of the united states army by using the title “capitian” as a slur as you seem intent on doing. It’s not only degrading to me but to every one who serves their country, somthing im not sure you know much about.

if you want to disrespect me and call me Jacko, then fine, but have some since of decency and leave the title out of it.
and before you start cursing at lefty, concider this. Who the HELL do you think YOU are. claiming liberals hate american then turning around and sluring an officer of the united states army, who served a three month tour of duty in afganistan fighting so people LIKE YOU can have your oppinions. DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF BEING A FACIEST WHEN I HAVE FOUGHT IN THE DESRTS OF HELL AND SEEN GOOD MEN DIE RIGHT INFRONT OF ME, AS THEIR BLOOD STAINES MY HANDS, AND THEN HAVE TO WATCH THE LOOK ON THEIR MOTHERS FACES WHEN THEY’RE TOLD THEY AREN’T COMMING HOME, ALL SO PEOPLE LIKE YOU CAN CONTINUE TO LIVE FREELY.

I never claimed to have a superrior intelect, I study because I know I DON’T, unlik many people I have a devotion to bettering myself. But please, the last thing I want is for every one to think like me, and if you’d Listen instead of spilling out the same old pile of crap you’d realize it.

no.

I don’t care if your right wing.

I don’t care if you hate communism

Hell I don’t even give 2 cents about what you believe on abortion.

What I do care about your ideas, you’re entitled to your free will as is every one else on this planet, I just wish you’d take the time to open your mind, and THINK!

liberalism is not communism, nore is it facism, nor is it even neccesarly Leftism. Liberalism is change, COnservitivism is Consitancy, neither is left or right. so please use the term leftist, not liberal.
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 8:00 pm

oh, before I forget nutbush,you claimed in one of your previous diatribes that repulicans and conservaties are racist NOT liberals or democrats right?.Well lets just see if that holds any water shall we. Remember it was that great beacon of liberalism and former DEMOCRATIC presidential canidate Jessie Jackson who cxalled Colin Powell a house slave.And lets not forget that other shinning example of liberalism al sharpton who called Condi Rice AUNT Jamima! OH yea I can see NO racisism on YOUR side of the isle ok!!
I even have a personal experence for you. Several years ago I decided to return to university and get another degree.(thats right nutbush this person you call a “retard” has a collage degree and a lifelong GPA of 3.5)Whats yours by the way?
So I applied to the fall semester, 3 weeks later i recieved a letter in then mail saying that I was not excepted.I tried again in the fall and again was rejected.
One day I happen to mention to a close female conservative black friend of mine about my problem.She immedietly knew what was going on.(she has worked the Education field all her life) She told me “I know exactly whats going on and I think I can help you” She went on,
“Your half native american right”.”yes I am” I replied. (my dear Mom is 100% full blooded choctaw indian). She said, “Why dont you re-submit your application but this time check the native american box when it asks you for your race instead of the white box like you did befor “What difference would that make?” I said}.”just trust me and do it Ok”.SO I did and guess what? 8 days later I recieved my acceptance letter in the Mail!
You see liberal institutions practice racsisim and sexsisim all day long in this country only they call it Affirmative ACTION”.

weather you descrimanate aginst a person because the pigment in his skin happends to be black is the same as dicriminating aginst a person becase his pigment is white..Racsisim is racisism.
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 8:26 pm

NOW COOL YOUR JETS MR SELF RIGHTOUS little ARMY officer!I am a vetern and was defending your little holier than thow ass while you were still crapping in diapers!!Don’t start waving the flag and pleading how Patriotic you are to me little mister,You have know idea who your talking to. It was an Ellitest Army know it all runt like yourself that almost got my entire battalion wiped out.Just because your an officer Jacko dosent mean your GOD.

You may well be an ARMY officer but you sure don’t sound sound like one,(but sence I have no proof to the contrarey so I won’t dispute that),But remember one of your first lessons from the point or O.C.S. TO get RESPECT you have to give RESPECT!
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 8:32 pm

little hint for you Capt.Jacko:
In the future when you tell your blood curdling war stories,it might be helpfull for you to know if you really want people to believe you, that most of us who have actually been in combat don’t really talk about it.
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 8:38 pm

Oh by the way—It wasn’t the ENTIRE battalion that almost got wiped out ,it was just HQ.and bravo battery(I was a tad upset when I said that)
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 9:04 pm

You know I have a sneeking suspicsion that Capt.Jacko and NUTBUSH MIGHT, I repeat MIGHT be the same person…IS that possible?
flyingbryan Says: April 23rd, 2006 at 9:09 pm

Yea it’s true.you ever notice how NUTBUSH always defends Capt.Jacko?hummm, maybe its because thier both Left wing nuts and think alike,—-yea thats propably it.
zootpotato Says: April 24th, 2006 at 1:21 am

Brian, your post is long, but too imbalanced for me to seriously attempt to read all of it, so I’ll discuss the two points I did read you talk about.

1) Blaming fascism on liberals because Mussolini used to be one

and

2) Your attempts to distort the dangers of American liberalism because of left-wing ideology abroad.

First of all, you simply can’t blame liberals for the right-wing fascism. That’s like crediting liberals for everything Ronald Reagan did, good or bad, for America. He was a democrat, after all.

Secondly, its shameful to even compare democrats to radical communists and republicans to Hitler. Liberals and conservatives in America are so much more tame then in the extreme examples you presented, even bringing them into the argument because they “share the same philosophies” is a large stretch.

Finally, I just want to say that capital letters and exclamation points don’t make an argument more powerful.
zootpotato Says: April 24th, 2006 at 1:39 am

A few more things to point out, Bryan.

First, as Houghton Mifflin company states: “Despite the word socialist in its (The NAZI’s) name, it was a fascist party, requiring from its members supreme devotion to the German government — the Third Reich.”

Second, how come, as you open your argument, you try to pin fascism on liberals (because Mussolini used to be one, or whatever), but then, later on, make it a point to prove that fascists/NAZIs killed less then communists? By linking fascists and liberals, are you actually trying to make democrats look better then if you linked them with communists? Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy in your argument.
flyingbryan Says: April 24th, 2006 at 3:36 am

OK spud listen up –
25 milllon people died under the thumb of HITLER—
over 100 millon died under the commies stalin and mao–proving my point that the most human sufering during the last century was the result of liberal(meaning socialist/communist) forms of goverment,not the conservative forms of democracy and captilism,( hitler’s germany HAPPENED TO BE a cpitalist country)–NOW how the hell do you get that Im endorsing naziism out of that? I think you hit the nial on the head when you said that you COuld’nt read the whole post I wrote–But I think it may be more of the case that you can’t stand to hear the truth.But I dont blame you spud your just a product of our liberal dominated culture–listen again to what I told your lib buddy nutbush–
“You see nutbush I don’t blame you for following the lock-step liberal propaganda party line–HOW CAN YOU NOT!Im in my mid 50’s and I have NEVER known a time in my life when we had a conservative culture.From our education system(with the exception of when I was very young)to our Main stream news television media,print media or motion picture industry, BIG Media Liberals have always dominated and tried to silence any one who disagreed with them.”

your always going to find elitest all knowing libs who will ALWAYS deny the socilist componet of fascism.The fact that they deny it dosent make it
any less true now than it did before.

you libs suffer from selective hearing and vision just like when it comes to the real truth about IRAQ.
when you guys claim that AL Quaida and the war on terror in IRAQ have nothing in common,it dosent make what you say true. lets just see what the facts are:
the number 2 man in al quaida right under bin laden, arrived in IRAQ 14 months before the first american troops came to liberate it from sadam hussian’s murderous buthers.He now heads up the main opposition to the american and the iraqi army in the war to stabilize the country and give the freedom the iraqi people deserve to have . His soldiers are responsable for most of our causaulties in iraq today.NOW guess what the name of his organizintion is spud—-—AL QUIDA of IRAQ!!not al quida of des moines or al quiada of Cinncinatti,but al quida of IRAQ.NOW if IRAQ has nothing to due with war on terror,then why are the same terrorist who killed three thousand of our own people fighting us there right now.
Jack Antilla Says: April 24th, 2006 at 4:43 am

how dare you.

I can tell bryan that you must have been a draftee, possibly for vietnam, because I doubt any recruiter would entertain the thought of you disrespectfull ass making a good soldier.

You talk about respect yet you show no respect to your fellow veterins. and your right I DON’T like to talk about my combat experiences, and I never told you a war story, because I doubt telling it to people like you does any honor to the dead. just because I was in combat doesn’t mean I won’t point out that I served to people who accuse me of Hating my countries freedom, and accuse be of being in the ranks of the same slime of humanity as people like Banito mussolini and Joseph Stallin

I never claimed to be god. I never even braged about my being in west point or being an officer, I requested somthing simple like not using the title of Capitian which requiers years of hard work, as a slur.

I AM INPERFECT, but insted of bitching about the views of others I seek to understand them to better myself somthing you obviously know nothing about.

Im done talking to you. You have done nothing but slur my name and my title, and accuse me of being a faciest hot head who hates freedom.

I can stand talking to right wingers, infact I have had many enlightening conversations with people like paul and joy on this sight, but I can not stand talking to you.

good bye, and good luck.
nutslikebush Says: April 24th, 2006 at 2:45 pm

“Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose — and you allow him to make war at pleasure. If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, ‘I see no probability of the British invading us’; but he will say to you, ‘Be silent; I see it, if you don’t.’ ”
Rep. Abraham Lincoln explaining his opposition to the Mexican War in 1848
nutslikebush Says: April 24th, 2006 at 2:52 pm

There is absolutely no connection between liberalism and communism. If you think that there is, you have no idea what liberalism in the US is and there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you. Communism is a categorically different philosophy. FlyingBryan, you are perhaps the most completely confused person that I have ever had any interaction with. You fundamental assumptions and your information sources have saturated your brain with nonsense. You really should re-boot your brain and start all over.
MAVERICK7777 Says: April 24th, 2006 at 6:55 pm

Well Jack, thanks for the reply… I think it is possible (granted not likely, but possible) if the right people get together with the right amount of money. What they would also need is the media on their side. “Mass Pschology” tends to work very well as we have a perfect example of this today, just look at both of our parties today. I do believe though, that now is the perfect time for a 3rd party to rise up. Just look at the recent close elections. To me that says not that we are a country divided, but rather, we are a country that only has two choices on where there political faiths lie, and dont really want to choose either. You have the Blue Democrats, the Red Republicans and the Gray Majority. Nobody properly represents the Gray Majority. I believe that if a third party had the proper backing, the proper people running it, and a sound ideology, Americans would jump at the chance to put somebody new into office. The way I look at it is, we have had two sports teams playing each other since the 1800’s and thats it. Its been the Cowboys and Giants for 200 years, and I am sick of watching the same teams play each other, even though the players change, I am ready for a legit third “team” to join the fray. I am sick of the current political system, and I want a third party, and I would prefer it now. It is a totally realistic idea in an perfect world… Democracy should be more than two wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner! Is anybody home???…
flyingbryan Says: April 25th, 2006 at 4:06 am

Poor Baby capt jacko, you can’t win the argument on the basis of any kind of merit so you just deny the what is true is true.once again you have to resort to put downs and name calling ANd now your going to pack up your toys and go home.
I really have the most serious doubts about you being an officer in the UNITED STATES army jacko,you just dont persuade.some of the officers I knew might be jerks but I never met an out and out wimp like you appear to be _What a big BABY BOO HOO he lost the argument because he can’t serously challange any of my arguments—- Go home to momy Jacko—You know Im almost sure now that your not for real.
Jack Antilla Says: April 25th, 2006 at 4:15 am

well, as you say 3 parties would be good, there are benifits to a two party system however. In a two party system things get done quiceker, though the partisan bickering is much more annoying.
and plus in a two party system, 51% is the majority clear and simple

where as a mulit party systm like in britian or france, there are so many parties that they often have to form coalitions to get past the gridlock.

also, in a multi party system a majority rule can be as low as 23% in cases. Not a true majority.

Though three parties would be fine, alothugh we may scrafice the ideas of true majority rule. Which in it’self may have som benifits as well, the minority would have a larger voice.

alot of varriables to concider ultamantly I believe though it comes down to a matter of oppinion.
flyingbryan Says: April 25th, 2006 at 4:18 am

Here is more info on the make up of BIG media(new youk times washington post cbs,pbs,nbc,abc,cnn,csnbc etc.etc..

Syrveying 240 leading journalists at the nations prestigious media outlets–including the new youk times washington post cbs,pbs,nbc,abc,cnn,csnbc,Lichter and Rothman discovered that 8 out of 10 voted democratic in presidential races between 1964 and 1976,with 94% picking LBJ over goldwaterin 1964 and 81% chossing mcgovern over Nixon in 1972.the Public interest in 2001 revealed that 76% of the top journalists voted for democratic loser Dukakis in the 1998 race and 91% voted for Slick willie Clinton in 1992.Yousee
Jack Antilla Says: April 25th, 2006 at 4:19 am

I would like to retract my statment to you bryan about you making a bad soldier.
in my anger I siad some things that were out of line. I admit I was out of line and I appologise to you as a fellow veteren of war.

though it would be appreciated that you NOT compare me to the slime of humanity that is Banito mussolini or Joseph stallin.

I served my time in hell as have you so lets leave it at that.

relevent and intilectual debate I don’t mind, but name calling and dishonorable slurrs are not appreciated.

das ist alles, danke!
Jack Antilla Says: April 25th, 2006 at 10:42 pm

bryan do you hear yourself when you speak?

You can barly put up an argument, I belive it was you who resorted to name calling, you couldn’t win the argument so you went and slurred my name, and called me a faciest freedom hating pussy, then you go and say things like

“Poor Baby capt jacko”

and “your going to pack up your toys and go home”

oh and my favorite “What a big BABY BOO HOO ”

you’re no military man.

youre just another wannabe redneck trash that resortes to slurrs when he knows he can’t win.

if you want any credibility what so ever, I sugest you shut your mouth you miserable excuse for a human being, and for the love of god get a text book,

at first I was entertained by you thinking Liberalism was fascism, Then it just got sad, get a text book you Joke.

oh and THINK about what you say, I swear every time I talk to you I think my IQ drops 2 points.

plese help me understand your logic. oh wait logic is too elitist for you folk,

lemme guess
whooked un foniks dun good fer u!

do me a favor talk to me agian when you grow 2 braincells.
Jack Antilla Says: April 26th, 2006 at 12:04 am

and another thing bryan, allow me to educate you on somthing.

What Hitler created was not by any stretch of the imagination a democracy.

and even if it were, listen to what your saying your saying 25 million people dead i a genocide is acceptable because the other side killed more.

if you had any sence at all you’d know that in any government 1 person killed is too many.

oh and anotherthing Liberalism isn’t communism.

Liberalism is supporting a change in the status quo

Communism is the idea of every one being equal and part of a collective society.

theres a difference, and just because someone is on the left wing side of the political spectrum doesn’t mean their communists, and the same goes for the other side as well, Right wingers aren’t Nazis.

I’ve heard many leftist on this site make that connection, and I can’t tell you how annoyed I get when people take the other sides beliefs and polarize them.

and on to your media referenc bryan.

I see no relevence in how people in the news vote, because guess what they have very little real say in what goes into the media.

perhaps you didn’t know this but the media is owned by several large corporations, one of which is G.E, a defence contractor, and one of the biggest dealers of arms and weapons in the world, now does that sound liberal and communist to you?
Jack Antilla Says: April 26th, 2006 at 12:04 am

Joy, I remember you once asked me about why the media has so many harsh attacks on the bush administration and not the clinton administration, I believe a large majorty of that can be traced to the way the presidents build their cabinit structure.

In the Bush administraton, simular to many other rupublican administrations, the cabinit is set up in a pyrimid structure meaning every one in the beurocracy has some one above them untill it gets to the president, so therefore the media has a hay day trying to assign blame when somthing goes wrong, because every one is blaming the person above them, and in the case of the bush administration, they’re very good at making sure the blame doesn’t get too high up.

this is what happened during Katrinia, the problem lay with Brown, the directer of FEMA. but he claimed he didn’t get proper help from higher up and the blame quickly went up to the secratary of Home land security whcih very quickly bounced it up to the presiden The administration however, has gotten good at dodgeing bullets, and try to push off some of it onto ray nagen. And Every time the blame is bounced around, even if it goes back to brown and then to bush agian, the media will report on it like the rabid dogs they are and

Now on to clintons administration, Clintiton had an ad hoc (sp?) system of setting up his cabinit which was that he made all the decisions and his cabinit was there to advise him. so when he screwed up the blame and therefore the news didn’t get bounced around a whole lot like it does in a pyramid structure. it just stays with him, and the media will report that as they did, but they won’t dwell on it and beat the dead horse over and over as they do with the pyrimid structure, because it stays in one place and people would loose interest and their ratings would drop to another company, and they wouldn’t rake in as much cash.

like to hear your oppinion on this joy
zootpotato Says: April 26th, 2006 at 1:51 am

Bryan,

I read your response, and found one thing you said so ironically stereotypical, I have to point it out. You blame liberals for “selective hearing,” then call out all bad news in Iraq as “lies” from the so-called liberal, main-stream media. You are falling victim for the very thing you call against by refusing to accept facts that go against your beliefs. Can I blame you? No, not really.

Many people on both sides of the political divide are too closed minded to find facts that contrast against their arguments as true. To think that every bad fact about Iraq reported from CBS, ABC, and the like to be fake is paranoid and dumbfounding. At worst, these bad facts are all exaggerated, but not all out lies.

Also, what’s this hooplah about Al Quada’s number 2 man in Iraq? As I type this, sevral members of Al Qaeda are in our nation, plotting ways to harm us. Because they are on our soil, does this make us a target for war? Our government doesn’t support these people, obviously, and it looks like Saddam didn’t support these people either, whether or not they did happen to have the name “Iraq” in their name.
nutslikebush Says: April 26th, 2006 at 10:41 pm

And yet Bush has been given a free pass by the cooporate media throughout his administration. The fundamental problem with the media is that they want at least 15% profit margins and have sacrificed the real news for the profits that entertainment and playing it safe bring. We would not be in the mess we are in if Americans had access to the information that the media should be bringing to our homes every day. The news folks are mostly just poor actors creating characters that they portray in their own little daily soap opra (Jon Stewart and Cobert are the only honest people in the news business - NPR is good too).
nutslikebush Says: April 26th, 2006 at 10:44 pm

There are some very good print news sources too. My earlier comments were directed at TV “news” and most radio “news.” I am convinced that the talk show goons don’t even believe their own crap - they are not as stupid as their listeners are.
Jack Antilla Says: April 27th, 2006 at 3:18 am

sad the day that some one says the most reliable news source is Jon Stewart and steven colbert, whos sole perpouse is to mock the news.

Not sure I totally agree with you lefty, but it’s an interesting point, the very nature of their comedy prevents them from being too biased, thought they do work the same way as the media but towards a different goal

while you claim the media are bad writers of a soap opera, which I find to be not entirly true, Doesn’t Comedy central operate in the same way? in order to get ratings and a decent pay check they have to make our leaders, both Republican AND Democrat seem like total asses. Which isn’t too hard concidering our current president and the utte joke that is the leadership of the democratic party, but my point stands.

I don’t believe there is any One reliable source of information out there. You have to take information from many sources to get an anything close to an accurate picture.
nutslikebush Says: April 27th, 2006 at 11:09 am

A good press would be like universal acid - capable of eating through anything. I believe that the health of a democracy is directly linked to the capacity of the press to push back the curtain of deception that politicians and businesses shroud their secrets behind and reveal the facts to the general citizens. But our press is largely owned by big business and now even the government is paying members of the press to report “positive” news about them and their policies. Our country now is just like George Orwell imagined it would be. Words are turned upside down - Patriot Act=attack the fundamental rights granted by the constitution; clear skies=increase pollutants; No child left behind=cut funding to schools; mission accomplished=the endless war has just begun.
nutslikebush Says: April 28th, 2006 at 12:47 pm

Jack,
Commedy central is definately profit-oriented. But at least they are honest about their motives and admit that their news is fake. My concern is that all TV news just seems to be theater. Who among them is willing to ask the hard questions?
liberalsareidiots Says: April 30th, 2006 at 3:59 am

Nutslikebush,

Your name is somewhat fitting although I don’t get the bush part. Any person who leaves comment after comment even though no one is responding is in fact nuts, also the fact that the first night you read this post you had to post more comments. Liberal idiots like you of course are what the original poster was talking about, I actually read a couple of your comments and their ridiculous, I quit after comment 3 in which you claim every american would have to pay 30,000. This is a very easy statistic to verify, in which I did, considering 9 trillion divided by the population of the us 300 million is only 30, it shows how much of a typical dumb liberal you are. Distorting, inflating a statistic just to prove your stupid point, well most dumb liberal statistics come out of somebodys *ss and there is no way to prove them thats why liberals make them up, but after exposing your idiocy I bet you will write 20 comments to me so go ahead.
nutslikebush Says: May 2nd, 2006 at 2:12 am

Jack,
Please tell me that you saw Stephen Cobert hand Bush is ass Saturday night at the White House Correspondent’s dinner. He stood ten feet from Bush and said everything I hoped he would say (he is made of awesome!). Never in the history of american political rhetoric has such a deep blow been delivered so perfectly. The MSM (Bush’s lap dogs) have panned the performance as a “bomb.” It was a bomb alright - a daisy cutter going off right beside W. If you didn’t see it, the entire transcript is here.
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/30/1441/59811
Jack Antilla Says: May 2nd, 2006 at 11:42 pm

nah I didn’t catch it, Im not one to watch too much T.V latly, but I did see it on your link, thanks.

Im sure fox news is mobalizing. it looked like they took a few of the hits a little to seriously.
liberalsarenobetter Says: May 18th, 2006 at 4:02 am

Well, one thing is for sure. A liberal democrat could not do any better. How can you think liberals, who lie about the president and other republicans just to make them look bad, can effectively run this country? When i have a family of my own, i do not want my children to have to worry about the terrorist threat from the middle east. you can deny reality, as most liberals do, and say there is no threat, but there is indeed a serious threat in the middle east. u can say we deserve it, as fucked up as it is to say that, but americans are a friendly, hospitable, peaceful people. it’s just when u fuck with us, ur gonna suffer the consequences. so as far as im concerned, we need to be over in the middle east. george bush is being a leader during these difficult times in history. no liberal would lead us the way bush is. a liberal’s idea of leading is appeasement. u don’t appease enemies. bill clinton gave kim jong il billions of dollars in aide for his country. and being the typical liberal that clinton is, trusted the guy to use that money the right way. instead, the guy used it to build nuclear weapons and his military. clinton did nothing when our embassies were attacked and american citizens were killed. he did nothing when the uss cole was attacked. he did nothing when the world trade center was bombed to stop terrorist organizations. thats a typical liberal mindset. dont do anything bc we deserve it. thats horseshit. george bush is the man to get things done. to lead us to victory over the islamofascist threat that looms across the seas, and even in our own country bc our freedoms allow you to preach that anti-american bullshit. you people watch too much TV. its all controlled by the liberal media anyway. thats probably why u think the way u do bc “the TV says thats how it is.” im sure tons of u people will flip a shit for what i have to say, but, seriously, my point is, a LIBERAL democrat cannot do any better. liberals are killing america.
food for thought
whyliberalssuck.blogspot.com/
the-muslim-question.blogspot.com/
everythingiknowiswrong.com/
JD9779 Says: May 18th, 2006 at 4:15 pm

I would like to preface this by saying that I am new to this site (so I don’t get called out by nutslikebush in post 41), and by and large I think that political arguments are a huge waste of time. Now don’t get me wrong - I love reading the dialogue between Nuts and Jack, with some witty, insightful and well thought out comments by Bryan thrown in.

The reason do not engage in political debates is as follows. I am, for the most part, a middle of the road conservative (I voted for Bush, and would again - but that’s neither here nor there). Nothing that is said by Nuts or others that tend to lean towards the left is going to sway me to change my position, just as I know that nothing that I say will get them to change theirs. The only thing that I know we will all agree on is that there are some things that are fundamentally wrong with America as it is right now. I do not think it is not a “party” issue. No Republican will ever step in and fix all the problems, just as no Democrat ever will. And I don’t think that the solution is a third party either, because it will just serve a third group’s interest. This may just be my simplistic view, but if the parties can just get back to doing what is best for our country (which does mean both inside our country and internationally) then we would all be better off. All of this jockeying for position against the other party just wastes time that could be spent things that can actually make a difference. And everything is so wrapped up around money that it seems to me the only main difference between the parties is how money gets spent.

I would also like to add that I am young (mid 20’s) and have not been around or seen as much as some other contributors to this site, and, like Jack, do not claim to know everything. I am still trying to learn and form my own opinions about what is going on, but I just wanted to add my two cents.

If anyone disagrees with me, please post (as I know you will). As I said earlier, it won’t bother me because I know what I think, and your opinions won’t change mine. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well, and I enjoy the site.
nutslikebush Says: May 23rd, 2006 at 4:26 pm

JD9779 - Great post. Sincerely. Very thought provoking.
kolran Says: May 28th, 2006 at 5:21 pm

JD9779, I agree that polotics are a huge waste a time. I also think they are interesting. As an amature I have observed these things.
1. Everyone on this site will neither admit to being a libral or a conservationist.
2. They will never directly respond to a post. (they will only respond to bits of it).
3. There are people like Bush LB out there that come in, call names, post a few posts on a certain date and never come back. (his date was 4/12/06)
4. People like nutslikebush and Jack Antilla are seasoned vetrans and many people leave that particular blog when they are in a heated debate.
kolran Says: May 28th, 2006 at 10:33 pm

Sorry I forgot two;
1. People like to change their names so it can not be pointed out that they are disagreeing with themself. (there may just be two people debating on this site that are always changing their name)
2. Jack, nutslikebush, and righty like arguing. Even if they agree with what you said they will often oppose your statement.
kolran Says: May 29th, 2006 at 12:41 am

May I add something to number 4 on post 91?
This excludes flyingbryan.
shellywilley Says: June 10th, 2006 at 7:22 am

I am astounded by the selective amnesia of the knee-jerk libs regarding “harmless” Saddam’s offer of payment to the families of homicide bombers. But that’s George Bush’s fault.
George Bush also is responsible for Saddam and his sons raping and murdering people who irritated them, along with those who rebelled against them- not to mention the women who had a problem with being raped. But let’s have sympathy for Saddam.
Liberals seem to look for any reason to excuse the monstrous and murderous behavior of these creatures. but how long would they stand for it if it was happening to them?
Oh, I forgot, it’s George Bush’s fault.
Nicholas Berg’s father calls the death of the man who sawed his son’s head off on videotape a tragedy. WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM?
nutslikebush Says: June 10th, 2006 at 9:47 pm

You won’t find anyone defending Saddam or his sons. Those guys were horrible, horrible, horrible. The worst kind of humans. Zarqawi was a serial murderer too. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. But that doesn’t mean that Bush has been a good leader. It makes no sense to compare the deeds of our government with those of Saddam or terrorists - they are not even close to the standard that we must demand of ourselves. We cannot tolerate being even one one millionth as bad as them or we have failed. We should tolerate no badness or injustice whatsoever of our leaders or ourselves.
nutslikebush Says: June 11th, 2006 at 2:28 pm

The world’s greatest democracy made a series of decisions about war and peace; life and death; and about the world we will pass on to our children, all based on faulty information
spencer Says: June 15th, 2006 at 2:44 pm

You stupid liberals.
the name of this site is LAUGH at liberals.
If you dont agree than shut you big mouth.
Don’t go making comments on a republican site.
go to your own little bush bashing site and make you stupid comments there.

SHUT THE H*LL UP
kregh99 Says: June 21st, 2006 at 7:18 pm

Oh, I get it. Laughatliberals has nothing to do whatsoever with fact or information. It’s just a giant conservative wank-a-thon where you guys can stroke eachother’s egos and remain in your little self-indulgent fog.

“Bush is great!”
“Heh heh. Yeah. Heh heh, and liberals suck!”
“I agree. Hold me spencer.”
“OK.”

nutslikebush has presented valid sources for every one of his points and the rest of you have offered nothing.
Joy Says: June 25th, 2006 at 1:05 am

Please bring the conversation up several levels spencer and kregh.
I’d really like to know if you have something to say.
UrLiLiberal Says: July 10th, 2006 at 12:18 am

Ok there are alot of facts on the table about the Iraq war and there are alot of misconceptions. I truly don’t care to argue those. Maybe it’s because I’m a liberal and I will probably get everything wrong… Geez… I would just like to comment on this -

“Unfortunately, this is where liberals can’t stand the heat. When you look at the facts, by any measure, we are winning in Iraq. The Iraqi people are better off. The world is a safer place.”

Ok well, what are we winning exactly? That’s my question. We are winning the imperialisitic goal that we have set for Iraq by changing their government? No I don’t think so because I highly doubt that any Muslim (especially the oppressed Muslims of the middle east from the ruling class) would ever hold a constitution comprised by infidels over any interpretation of the Koran by any radical. Remember the Soviet Occupation of the late 70s. The Russians do. America didn’t end the USSR by themselves. Bin Laden and his followers helped alot. The point is we will never win this war. NEVER. Not until those people have a revolution themselves… which they are trying to do but US forces are trying to “maintain peace” and in the process stunting their attempts. All of this anger directed toward America is a result of misdirected anger. They are trying to evolve as a people and we keep occupying their lands with miltary and economic presence and pissing them off. We are winning? That’s cute but quite naive.

Wait I know. The corporations are winning. I guess that can help some Americans sleep better at night because that’s a far more pleasant to think of instead of hospitals being blown up for making aspirin or innocent civilians being raped, murdered and tortured all so that America can get it’s nuts off in the oil industry. Oh this war isn’t about oil you say? Like we really give two shits about the Muslim people after they all attacked us on 911. See I can dish out retarded rhetoric just like the rest of you.

Get angry with my comments but just remember that “the facts” about our interest in oil in the middle east disolve your argument to my previous statement.

Although I could be wrong. I am a liberal after all. Peace. I admit that makes me inferior to all you true Americans who don’t question anything that would bring controversy. Peace.
mark_mnc1 Says: July 12th, 2006 at 4:22 am

You [removed by editor] liberals do such a good job of obeying orders from your professors and leftist organizations in checking out conservative/anti-liberal websites. At any rate you need to learn what is objective and subjective. Unemploymency in Iraq is 70% is a (supposed “objective” fact) and “it is the children who are suffering the most is a very vague easily argued subjective/personal statement. I dont get how you leftists who so dimwitedly fight for women’s rights in this country so easily castigate women from other cultures who are the ones who are beaten on a daily basis and not given any right to leave their home much less vote. It also shows that leftists are the truly racist scum out there not conservatives. Also, everyone on here needs to site their sources so others can see how accurace or innaccurate those sources are. Maybe instead of hammering and denouncing US troops works in Iraq and how bad of life Iraqis relaly have it you can discuss the true human rights abuses and oppression going on in Cuba, China, and other socialists paradises that you dream of.
nutslikebush Says: July 13th, 2006 at 1:20 pm

Mark,
It seems that you believe that human rights abuses by Cuba and China and those of the US are mutually exclusive. That’s a false choice, as both are realities and are unacceptable to people of conscience. I don’t think that we should judge our country in terms of how other countries are performing (i.e., if we are doing better on human rights issues than China, that ain’t saying much). I believe that we should demand far better performance from ourselves than we are getting. It is necessary to point out our weaknesses in order to have targets for improvement. We should always be trying to make our country better. It doesn’t make our country better to ignore its weaknesses and mistakes and behave like blind cheer leaders. Saying we are great doesn’t help anyone - the US is not a football team that needs more fans, it is a complex evolving civilization with great room for improvement.
kolran Says: July 23rd, 2006 at 11:51 pm

No it doesnt (saying we are great),

unless you count’s us egotistical Americans. (It boosts our false self confidence)
iainmay Says: August 7th, 2006 at 12:33 pm

Well done spencer, your clearly all for free speech, freedom and democracy…oh wait, no your not! Don’t criti

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