ITS NOT A BRIDGE TO IRAQ
Is it true? Can it be that you liberal nuts are somehow associating the bridge collapse in Minnesota with the war in Iraq? I read a post on this site saying that “George Bush knows all of our bridges are in need of repair but he is diverting money from bridge repair to fund the war in Iraq.”
Hey Moron….go to a college book store and buy a used Civics/Government book. Not the fourth year book…the basic introduction book. It’s probably yellow with black stripes and says something like…Government for Dummies on it.
Bridge and road repair is funded through the collection of transportation taxes, mainly gasoline. They cannot be used or diverted to other purposes. To be sure, money can be budgeted for capitol improvements, but the White House, generally speaking, doesn’t get involved in the minutiae of bridge building. That is for congress screw up, which they handle just fine.
If you’re worried about bridge building, call John Murtha and ask him to cancel some of the millions of dollars in pork he stuffed into the defense appropriations bill for his buddies and use that to build a couple of new bridges. Maybe Nacy Pelosi can talk to her husband and get the Del Monte corporation to donate a bunch of empty cans of crushed pinapple and we can use that to build a bridge.
Call Hillary. She and Bill know some company that built a bridge all the way to the 21st century….!
The Other Side Says: August 8th, 2007 at 12:37 am
classic republican debate tactics: insult the other person, throw in some general ambiguous facts and attack the opposing side by mentioning some of their mistakes. this article had no basis for anything it said. it sounded like someone who is far-right was defending his party because they are afraid their basic ideals are wrong.
bush is taking money away from transportation in general for the war in iraq. its plain and simple. this rising defecit isn’t going down, so the government needs to divert money from somewhere to pay for the huge defense spending. the gas tax in minnesota hasn’t been raised in decades and and increase was just vetoed by the republican governor. just look at the basic infrastructure of this country, its a mess.
i hope this writer realizes that the next president will be a democrat, so things will change with time. it just couldn’t happen soon enough. why are republicans so afraid of taxes?
Emory Says: August 8th, 2007 at 2:30 am
Buck is back!
Buck Evinger Says: August 8th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Was moron an insult? I meant it in the kindest way. It’s so funny how you employ typical liberal tactics: acuse the other party of doing exactly what you do. BUSH BAD….MEAN….REBPUBLICANS BAD…..I CARE….WAAAAAAAAA
By the way, the defecit IS GOING DOWN AND THE SURGE IS WORKING!
The next president may well be a Democrat, but it ain’t over till the votes are counted and the Democrats lawyers have run out of billable hours.
WhyNotObama? Says: August 8th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
The Neo-Con Libitarian Republican plan:
Destroy the goverment buy defuning it of taxes. Complain about the governments efectivness and efficiency. Divert Tax money to Wars, Corperate welfare, and Republican pork berral “Bridge to no where” projects. Usher in a two class sytem of Wealth Monarchies.
Compleatly remove all moral considerations in the persute of wealth and power………..
The New NAZI Party….begins
nutslikebush Says: August 9th, 2007 at 4:47 am
The surge is working? You must have a unique definition of “working.” The Iraqi parliament isn’t working. Therefore the surge can’t work because without an effective government there is no solution for their problems. It is not a military problem even in the least. If we left, the Shia militias would rid Iraq of al qaeda in less than 30 days. Then the sunnis and the shites need to settle their differences which started the day the Prophet died.
nutslikebush Says: August 9th, 2007 at 4:53 am
By “deficit going down” Buck means that we are bleeding money (the nation debt is still growing at an alarming rate) at a slightly slower rate than we did during previous years of the Bush 43 administration. A poor standard to judge by. That’s like saying to a guy who is hemorrhaging to death “hey you are bleeding slower. Congratulations!”
nutslikebush Says: August 9th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Buck,
I don’t think that you are thinking broadly enough about the issue. To the extent that the war in Iraq has played a role in other problems in the US, it is not only because we are BORROWING about a trillion dollars to do it (so far; and we are borrowing most of it from countries like China), but also because the war has consumed all of the oxygen in Washington. The Bush administration has been about nothing but the war in Iraq. It is the nation’s great distraction. Almost no one is left who would agree with you that the war was a good idea. Unfortunately, other aspects of our national development and real security have been ignored for 6 years. The bridge collapse was just an unfortunate failure of the bridge inspection program, a program which everyone agrees could benefit from a budget supplement.
nutslikebush Says: August 9th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Buck,
You said “it ain’t over until all the votes are counted.” So do you mean that the 2000 election still isn’t over? Because those votes still haven’t been counted.
SPC. Blakely Says: August 9th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
alright, the whole Nazi thing is uncalled for.
maybe if you educated yourself in history you’d remember the Nazi’s got power through burning down the parliment building, and blaming it on the oppisite party, declaring martial law, rounding them up, then killing them.
yes the republicans are corrupt, all politicians are.
but htey’re not Nazis, any more than the democrats are communists.
The Other Side Says: August 9th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
you’re right buck, the surge is working…militarily. but thats not the purpose of the surge. this war cannot be won with bombs and bullets, even petreus says that iraq needs political change to happen. the surge is giving the iraqis time to reconcile and make laws to stabilize their country. but thats hard when the minority party, sunnis, leave the parliment and they whole government is on vacation because “its too hot”. weak. the iraqis weren’t prepared for a democracy and it shows. those are facts and they help in a debate.
buck, can you honestly defend bush? i never accused him of anything that he hasn’t done. your response to me didn’t prove anything but your partisanship and how defensive republicans are.
Buck Evinger Says: August 10th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Who ever said that democracy in Iraq would be easy? Certainly not George Bush. You may recall that America, the greatest democracy on earth, nearly crumbled 100 years after the Declaration of Independence,(civil war) but the leadership of Lincoln helped save the republic. Democracy aint easy but give the Iraqi people some credit. When was the last time you could have been murdered just for going to vote?
The truth is, current polls show that a growing number of Americans (45% up from 35%) look at the Iraq war as just and the right choice. The surge and Petras’ leadership has helped to create a grass roots change in Iraq. I don’t look at the Iraqi parliments recess as a bad thing. It may well do some good to have individuals dealing directly with one another, behind the scenes.
The Sunni/Shia conflict is centuries old and will NOT BE SOLVED IN OUR LIFETIME! But given a more peaceful environment where the rule of law prevails they may be able to co-exist and create a real beacon of freedom for the Muslim world in Iraq.
Isn’t that worth a try?
The Other Side Says: August 11th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
the peaceful environment isn’t being used by the iraqi government. they finally have some breathing room, but the animosity between the groups isn’t going to change. as a result, whats going to happen in september when petreus and crocker talk about iraq? are they going to ask for more troops? more time? whatever they say, its not going to be a call for a withdrawal.
the truth is that our army cannot sustain the current numbers for a prolonged amount of time and with the lack of down time, they are being forced into traumatizing experiences. republicans are going to block the webb amendment that allows troops to stay home at least the same amount of time that they are deployed. republicans say its micromanaging the war but thats a cop out. all of the republicans’ plans rely on more troops, but where are they going to get them? the current forces have no front to unwind behind. as a result they are on high alert all the time. their minds are being worn out and that affects performance. and then they come home and are immediatly re-deployed, or don’t have a job, or cannot go to school, or are run through mountains of paperwork.
not to mention the fact that the military is lowering the standards and raising the financial benefits for enlisting. how long is america going to stay in iraq? the poor strategy that was used for the first four years has dug a hole thats too deep to climb out of. as a result the military isn’t at the proper strength to win anything. the only thing thats happening now is innocent american soldiers are dying.
nutslikebush Says: August 11th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
I am not sure what you mean by “the surge is working.” Do you just mean that insurgency violence is down in some areas like Anbar? A basic tactic of guerrilla warfare is to not confront an army head-on. They are just laying low and looking for softer targets. They won’t ever go away though.
The problem with the Iraqi parliament is not that they are on recess. The problem is that they are absolutely and completely dysfunctional. They are not a government at all. They are a total and permanent failure. I am afraid that a government will eventually emerge in Iraq but it won’t be a democracy. It will be islamic and under sharia law (which explicitly states that democracy and islam are incompatible). The problem is that Bush did not understand the group of people he was invading, at all. His beliefs about Iraqis doesn’t match up with reality.
nutslikebush Says: August 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Buck, were you talking about this poll? I couldn’t find the numbers that you reported at any of the polling sites that I frequent.
In the latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll, taken Friday through Sunday, the proportion of those who said the additional troops are “making the situation better” rose to 31% from 22% a month ago. Those who said it was “not making much difference” dropped to 41% from 51%.
About the same number said it was making things worse: 24% now, 25% a month ago.
RebelfromNV Says: August 12th, 2007 at 4:28 am
I find it so amazing that this board is infested with the libs,this is a website that pokes fun at the left, but yet the socialists are the ones that post the majority here. I guess its just their narcissism, and no we are not afraid of taxes, We JUST DON’T think its the working classes job to support the welfare class and pay for their health care, abortions, etc. and whatever else you people decide to tack on, you think anyone should be given welfare with NO questions asked, I guess if it gets the votes. Just how you use reverse discrimination to buy the minority vote, who cares if its racism as long as its against the majority right? You sit and believe whatever your God AL GORE tells you with no questions asked, and take it as an accepted fact, you hate big business unless they support your idelogy, Planned Parenthood getting rid of unwanted pregnancies, you support that company. You want peopel to GET something for Nothing, You bash christianity, but defend Islam to your dying days, WHY? because their a minority religion, so spare us your bleeding heart lectures, I knew you would find a way to blame the bridge collaspe on Bush, Thats what you sad people do. He must have done it with his same machine that caused global warming.
nutslikebush Says: August 12th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Rebel -
Your description of liberals shows that you know nothing about those whom you oppose. You are made at your own fantasy, not a reality.
nutslikebush Says: August 12th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
This is a “must see”. Dick Cheney explains why invading Iraq would be a bad idea. It is actual untouched video from 1994. He seems amazingly in tune with reality in this video. I don’t understand what came over him in 2003 and thereafter.
thismodernworld.com
JACKSON Says: August 12th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
The problem is people or some libs think being poor is a sickness that you can cure with free money from the people who actually work. You can’t cure being poor and especially by welfare, you just make it bigger. You really don’t give the majority of people on welfare any incentive to get off their ass. There is nothing wrong with being poor, I was poor but i worked hard and no I didn’t stand in the welfare line, and I made my money. That is the way it is suppossed to be done, the pursuit of happiness not the hand out of false sympathy. I have a family too, but we worked hard and made sacrifices and now we are stable. I think welfare is one of the biggest reason Americans have become lazy and spoiled. Everyone demands their rights to everything but most are not willing to earn or work for them. If you want to truely be an American, you have to contribute to the pot. True, some people need our help but more welfare isn’t the answer, stricter welfare is what is needed so potential contributers to society can be helped. That way we can brake the welfare cycle of the parents, then the kids then the kid’s kids and etc. Welfare should help and encourage people to work, not benifit them more if they have more kids and do not work. Stricter welfare, less taxes…
The Other Side Says: August 13th, 2007 at 3:47 am
so many conservatives on this site seem to have pretty extreme ideas of liberals. and then they call them names without addressing the problem. case in point: RebelfromNV.
i guess i’m forced to ask these die hard conservatives directly: do the tax cuts that bush enacted have any affect on why america’s infrastructure is falling apart? why or why not
it really is amazing to see people defend bush after all he has done.
JACKSON Says: August 13th, 2007 at 4:52 am
I am no political wiz, but my opinion, not defending Bush, but the managers or people incharge of the bridges, roads etc. need to be held accountable. Bush is making mistakes but I don’t think it realistic to blame him for everything. Katrina is nature and the governors fault and lets face it, that was a very bad storm. The first time something happens you get caught with your pants down, I don’t think anyone in the country or world could have been truely prepaired for that. The bridge collapsing, I am no engineer and it’s safe to say Bush isn’t either, how could he forsee the bridge collapsing. There are people to blame but you can’t peg all our countries whoes on Bush, some major issues but jeeeze everything is just being silly. All these agencies and departments have people in charge, they should be accountable for their mistakes.
The Other Side Says: August 13th, 2007 at 6:25 am
jackson brings up valid points, but i believe america is lazy because of the increase wealth. less taxes and higher incomes equals more money to spend on pointless items, which i guess is the point of the trickle-down theory. but this greater wealth leads to greed and doesn’t benefit anybody but the individual. why does a multi-millionare pay a smaller percentage of their wealth than a middle class citizen? the fact that the wealthiest one tenth of a percent of americans make the same income as the lowest fifty percent is whats wrong with america.
nutslikebush Says: August 13th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Buck,
The British parliament just concluded that “The US “surge” tactic in Iraq appears likely to fail, a committee of MPs warned in a wide-ranging assessment of the Middle East.” You can read the story here: guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6845842,00.html
nutslikebush Says: August 13th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Jackson,
I don’t know a single person in this world who thinks that it is good for people to be on Welfare perpetually. I supported the Welfare to work program and support the new regulations that require recipients to work at least 20 hours per week (or 30 hours if their children are over 6). Work is good for the soul and the pocketbook. People who don’t work, rich or poor, are missing out on much of the joy of life. I don’t want higher taxes either. I am not a fan of long-term welfare for able bodied people or high taxes. So your stereotype doesn’t really fit, does it? If you get your perspective on the world from Rush, Sean, Savage etc, it is badly distorted. Don’t let those fools own your brain.
Celumnaz Says: August 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Forgot about this site! Glad it’s still here!!
have been going to moveonundergroundkoz for my laughs for a while. Best Places Ever to learn degrading putdowns, new cuss words… basically how to hate. Funny stuff.
Bridge is Bush’s fault, Bush caused the hurricanes, Bush hates black people, it’s Bush’s fault “liberals” have skid marks on their drawers… etc etc on and on…
those nuts seem to think Hitler and Manson are/were good men compared to the somehow magically powered Bush… almost makes me wish I had voted for him instead of Brown and then Keyes.
That VRWC (vast right wing conspiracy) out to get em…
nutslikebush Says: August 15th, 2007 at 4:14 am
So now the suicide attacks have begun in Kurdistan. Previously Kurdistan was immune to such attacks. As I said before, they insurgent terrorists in Iraq will not flock to the locations where our military is centralized. They will move to the places where we have few troops. We don’t have a big enough military to occupy more than a small fraction of territory in Iraq. The insurgents just have to move around and destabilize things - spending pennies for every thousand dollars that we spend. We actually can’t afford to occupy Iraq without accruing debt that will be our undoing. We should be an example to other countries. But we don’t need to be invading every country under the sun. Heck, if our military wasn’t “occupying” Saudi Arabia, 9/11 would never have happened. If we kept our noses out of everyone else’s business, we wouldn’t be a target. Think Sweden or Switzerland - free, democratic, rich, and not a target.
Zach Says: August 15th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
To All Bush hating Liberals.
First of all if you have nothing better to do at 4 to 5 in the morning than insult peopl. You need to get out of your mothers basement and start paying more attention to the world around you. The world does not revolve around your oppinions. SO SHUT UP! Thank you Celumnaz for explaining that the liberals think that everything that goes “wrong” in the world is Bush’s fault. Some things are. Like the massive amount of boddies of terrorist that we are piling up daily in the middle east. The thousands of jobs he has given to america. And the only thing that the 4 am’ers can do is complain and not do anything about it. I have not posted here in quite some time due to the fact I was in a field hospital in Iraq. I am sick and tired of people complaining. If you could really see what goes on behind the media, you will recognize that what we are doing in Iraq is for the better of that country. Children run up and hug us every day for what we do for them. But the media does not show that. That is why I wish you could see whats really going on in Iraq. We saved these people from a monster, that kills without mercey. So next time you have nothing to do at 4 in the fing morning. Go do some research on non media based websites about the good done in Iraq and Afganistan.
nutslikebush Says: August 15th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Buck,
I think it is cool that your site features the new Obama advertisement. That is very even-handed of you. Well done. I checked it out and thought it was very interesting. It should gain him some support from among your flock.
JACKSON Says: August 16th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Nuts, I get my sterotype from real life (the majority of people on welfare) and my own personal life experience. Where I used to live there are many people on welfare and they’re generations of them (their parents, them then their kids and so on). I lived in that area because of cheap housing not because I was on welfare, I worked hard and made it out. For me not taking welfare gave me the drive to work my way out, it was my only option and I am greatful for my parents upringing. Many of my neighbors were just the opposit, they didn’t want to work because they recieved less welfare and assistance. That’s why I think more welfare will just make the problem bigger. That’s why I think stricter welfare and less taxes are right for me. Stricter tax so we can weed out the moochers, less tax because I would like to see more on my paycheck, lol. If you make it harder to get welfare people will have no choice but to work. It sounds insensitive but you will never help the unemployment if you make it easier for people to stay unemployeed. I don’t resent rich people because somebody in their blood if not themselves was poor at one time and worked to have what they have. For me it’s if the situation I am in is bad and I don’t like it I either better myself or adjust. If I can’t afford something I simply don’t buy it. People have to be responsible for their own mistakes, we gotta stop blaming the tv, radio etc., the government can only do so much. To me the governments job is simple to make sure we have a chance not to take care of everything, if they truely did, what would be the point in working? I am just a simple tax payer, family guy, soldier and former poor person.
Iraq, the terrorist threat was an event that was going to happen no matter what America did. But true sometimes I wish America would close it’s borders and mind its business but you gotta realize America is damned if we do and damned if we don’t. People need to understand the terrorist hate the fact that we offer so many rights to our people, they see it as sin and they feel it is their holy war to destroy us. This war was inevitable. But I do agree our leaders have made many mistakes, but I ask you what now. Now that we our engagged in this war/civil war/jihad - what do we try to achieve. Do we stay the course for another 10 years until we get their government strong enough and finally achieve world stability, at the same time bleeding America dry to the verge of bancruptcy or do we leave now but eventually go back to Iraq not as liberators but as full blown enemies igniting WWIII. I seriously don’t know what the best course of action is, but I do know this war was inevitable. Would it have been better now or later I don’t know, we can only speculate…
JACKSON Says: August 16th, 2007 at 6:25 am
I just got an idea sparked by what Zach said about the kids coming up to the troops and huggin them. Which is very true, but usually the parents will chase the kids away from us or tell them to stay away from us. I think probably the best way to making Iraq better is by educating and taking care of those children. The Iraqis from the teens and up to me are just brainwashed by this jihad bs. The children are the only ones really who see us as we are, liberators because right now their minds are young they haven’t been thoroughly brainwashed by the extremist. They are also not as scared to talk to us about the potential bad guys in the area. My heart wants to stay and help these kids. This choice will take long, it will cost alot of money but it feels like the right choice. I really don’t want to come back to Iraq 10 years from now and wind up killing the kid who used to look at me as a liberator, but since we left them high and dry converted to becoming our enemy…
JACKSON Says: August 16th, 2007 at 7:02 am
One more thought for all the finger pointers, seriously you can’t blame Bush for Katrina, 911 or the bridge collapsing.
Katrina: Ahorrific act of nature, who could have been prepaired for that, mother nature always wins. Bush not caring about black people, he probably doesn’t but don’t forget the mayor of NO is black and he didn’t do crap. He like many NewOrleanians kinda blew the storm off, many people chose to stay and to my opinion the Gov. didn’t do much to prepair. So if they didn’t take it seriously no wonder no one was really prepaired.
911 - No one could have prepaired for that, even I was shocked. We as Americans need to stop blaming and start learning from 911. And you can’t compair 911 to NO, water damage is harder to manage.
The collapsing bridge, nothing last for ever but hey that is why we have all those engineers to forsee that. Thats why all those directors, managers etc. are in place.
If you constantly blame Bush for everything then why have a government, we should just have Bush, why have directors, managers, supervisors, senators etc., we should just have Bush. Again not defending Bush, I just want people to be practicle. It is hard for me to take your post seriously when your being unrealistic.
nutslikebush Says: August 16th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Jackson,
We clearly agree on the need for people to work their way out of their problems (to the extent that they are physically able. I am baffled when I see people standing by the side of the road with their hands in their pockets, wasting their precious time. Get out there and do something productive with your life - that’s all I can think when I see them.
Disabled people certainly always deserve our help as do people who defend our country as part of our military. If you get wounded or killed in a war that our country took you to, your family should be set forever. As it stands, your family would get about the same compensation that Roger Clemens gets for pitching one inning for the Yankees.)
As for the war in Iraq, it was anything but inevitable. It was a war of choice and a very bad choice it was. It gains us nothing. Buck says it’s worth a try. Well so is going to Las Vegas and betting the ranch, but in Las Vegas the odds of winning are better than they are in Iraq. I defy anyone to define a set of conditions that would indicate victory.
SPC. Blakely Says: August 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
nuts, just a small critique of your arguments, and those of the other side as well, you seem to base all your assessments of why the war in Iraq is a failure off of news articles and other peoples opinions.
it might help if you had an argument of your own.
and buck, might help if you stopped being an ass, and presented information of your own.
nutslikebush Says: August 16th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Jackson,
As I read your last post it dawned on me that you think that Iraq had something to do with the attack on the US on 9/11. It is well-established that they didn’t. Saddam was a horrible SOB, but he did not attack America. He did once plan to kill George H.W. Bush (Bush 41). That’s bad. I am glad that Saddam is gone. But the cost was too great. He wasn’t worth all of the loss of life and treasure that it has cost. And we landed in a very bad strategic position in our battle against Islamic extremists. We would have been much better off in our struggle against them if we had not diverted our attention to Iraq. Things are going so bad in Iraq, perhaps Bush etc will learn a lesson and rethink their strategy of overthrowing other governments in the middle east. If this keeps us from attacking Iran and Syria though, perhaps the blood we shed in Iraq will not be in for naught. I detest Iran and Syria’s governments but we should just let that part of the world settle their disputes for themselves. That is what they have been doing since the dawn of civilization and will keep doing until the end of time. The middle east is a spider web and we are a big juicy fly.
The Other Side Says: August 16th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
zach, your argument is old and tired. if you think the media’s graphic depiction of the negatives in iraq is misleading, what are you going to think about petreus’ september report, WRITTEN BY THE WHITE HOUSE?
if you weren’t unbelievably anti-liberal, you may have a point. but from your post i can see that you believe the mainstream media is liberally-biased and therefore not valid. of course there is good going on in iraq, but neglecting the negatives is blantantly dishonest, look at bill o’reilly.
what is the point of looking at the good in iraq if there is no end in sight? the iraq government isn’t doing anything and now america won’t know the true story about iraq because the assessment is going to be thrown through the right-wing spin machine. the good is going to be washed away when america’s troops cannot sustain their forces and have to exit dangerously.
ps. tell me what good is going on and then compare it to the latest attack against the kurds.
The Other Side Says: August 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
jackson, bush’s cabinet had an intelligence report from the clinton administration saying that osama bin laden was preparing to attack america using airplanes. that report was religated to lower offices and didn’t reach bush until shortly before 9/11. i’m not saying bush planned the attacks or anything, but he had the intelligence to at least try and prevent the attacks. for whatever reason, no one took it seriously.
and spc blakely, again with the “you need to be fighting in iraq to debate iraq” argument. where am i supposed to find information when i’m in america besides the media? i base my opinions from television, newspapers and the internet. they may be biased to a certain extent, but if i look at different mediums i will have a larger pool of information. furthermore, just because my argument is in sync with most of america doesn’t mean its any less valid. a majority of people agreeing on an issue may mean something, hopefully, in a democracy. at least i try and avoid talking points and can think for myself…
nutslikebush Says: August 17th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
TOS,
I don’t think that Zach realizes that the time stamps on the posts are inaccurate, sort of like his opinions. I believe that it is Zach who has the blinders on in this case. There is no denying that Bush has been the worst disaster in the history of the American presidency. Unfortunately the congress doesn’t have the guts to take him on, the media is not living up to its constitutional responsibility to make sure that everyone knows what the government is up to, and the citizens are too lazy to really dig into the issues and force elected officials to behave responsibly. In the end, it is up to us to demand democracy and freedom for ourselves and our children because the government will do everything in its power to rob us of our freedom.
JACKSON Says: August 18th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Nuts, correction for you, no I don’t think Iraq is connected with Sadam, that was one of the mistakes I feel our leaders made. I think we should have concentrated our efforts in Afghanistan. But, we are in Iraq-so my point is we can’t turn back time so what do we do now.
2NDLY, you can’t base your decision on what you see on the media because you don’t see the Iraqis the way I see them, nor the way the kids are. If you had a more complete view you’d change your mind about Iraq. Specifically our situation now, not how we got here but now.
JACKSON Says: August 18th, 2007 at 1:06 am
The other side, thats what I mean, our security agencies got the intel, but like many people who think if we leave the terrorist alone they wouldn’t attack us and we got hit, now we awake. But the agencies that should have taken that info seriously didn’t so you really can’t blame bush you gotta hold the Intel people accountable, and 2ndly if we as American didn’t mess with the security budgets (liberals?) we might have had the resources and right state of mind as a nation to take that intel seriously.
Prior to the 911 attack, democrats and libs wanted a reduction in the military, intel agencies, budget cuts across the board. Then we get hit and America wants to blame someone, it’s our fault for letting our guard down and thinking the world is a safe place. If I am wrong, sorry I am venting, this is just how I observed it. Correct me were needed…
nutslikebush Says: August 18th, 2007 at 4:53 am
I find it fascinating that Tony Snow can’t make ends meet on his salary as White House spokesman. What gives here?
“I’m not going to be able to go the distance, but that’s primarily for financial reasons.” Snow said. “I’ve told people when my money runs out, then I’ve got to go.”
According to The Washington Post, Snow makes $168,000 as the White House spokesman.
Yikes! Imagine what poor folks who don’t even make $168,000 a year are going through.
nutslikebush Says: August 18th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Interesting story about how Iraqis now feel about life in Iraq.
usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-03-18-poll-cover_N.htm
nutslikebush Says: August 18th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Jackson,
Many of the intel problems that kept us from stopping the attacks on 9/11 arose from inter-agency rivalries. The CIA knew that many of the al qaeda operatives were in the US and were up to something. They didn’t tell the FBI because in the CIA wanted to recruit certain members of the 9/11 terrorists team to work as double-agents and infiltrate Al Qaeda. If they told the FBI the FBI would have arrested the 9/11 operatives instead and Patrick Fitzgerald (the US Prosecutor who was also assigned to the CIA/Plame identity leak case and who has successfully prosecuted other Al Qaeda members) would have filed charges against them. But the CIA wanted them to work for the CIA so they didn’t tell US law enforcement that the Al Qaeda operatives were even here. That is an institutional failure, not a failure of funding. It was also problematic that the agency and FBI had few people who could understand Arabic and interpret Arab culture. Read “The Looming Tower” by Lawrence Wright - it’s fascinating and informative.
The Other Side Says: August 18th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
you’re right jackson that i don’t see the iraqis the way you do. it may be the fact that i’m in america or that i’m more liberal than you. however, no matter the reason, i still see horrific attacks and us military dying. i can see the good, i saw a story about a saved orphan girl, but that little taste of a healthy iraq cannot overshadow a broken government and endless sectarian violence. those who neglect the negatives are the ones that continue the occupation and are in denial. thats what happened for the past few years when bush kept showing “progress” and forgeting the increased violence.
thats why we need to look at the past because bush will continue making the same mistakes and uses the same right-wing tactics. the petreus report will put more pro-iraq propaganda into the media and will distort people’s opinions, again. you can see blatant fear-mongering, his rhetoric about the fisa laws, and subtle shifts in pr to shine positive light on iraq, like that o’hanlan guy who said iraq was thriving but was being used by the military. the same tactics are being implemented which makes a responsible withdrawl before bush leaves almost impossible.
nutslikebush Says: August 18th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Jackson,
I am obsessed with trying to understand what is going on in the world and to help create conditions for positive change. I don’t like partisan politics - I am equally disappointed in the Republicans and Democrats and would like to see several new political party options emerge - or for all parties to be abolished. The wedge strategies of the Republicans (especially Rove) sicken me. They have divided our nation, brother against brother. We should recognize that we are all in this together and reject the partisan politics that have dominated the past 15 years.
On Iraq: I have not been to Iraq, but I do have Iraqi friends who provide me with first-hand accounts. I read the news from the middle east every day, in their papers. I also discuss these matters with people who have spent considerable amounts of time there as part of our military or intelligence services. So I think that I do have some perspective on the Iraq situation, albeit an imperfect one. I suspect that I know more about the people of Iraq than most of Bush’s advisers on the subject do (seriously). My fundamental belief about other countries is that their own people need to step up and show some interest in self-determination. We can’t force democracy on other countries, it has to grow there of its own accord or it will never really develop deep roots. Democracy grew from the ground up in the US. We are trying to transplant it into sandy soil in the middle east. Here is one thing to think about though. If democracy does ever take root in the middle east, Israel is finished. If you let the people of the middle east vote on whether Israel gets to continue existing, they will overwhelmingly vote against it. Their problem is hatred, not the lack of freedom. Freedom and hatred to coexist well together.
I also believe that Al-Qaeda can’t win in Iraq or anywhere else. They have nothing to offer anyone except death - not a strong selling point for most folks. We can offer life and prosperity, here and now. So that is our advantage. I think that the Iraqi militias (not their incompetent military or police forces, but the tribal militias that can really fight) will kill every single Al-Qaeda member within 30 days of when we leave Iraq. The Shiite tribal militias really hate al qaeda and the sunni militias are even going after them now. The real problem is that we are in their way. When we leave the struggle for Baghdad will get ugly. But that is inevitable and at this point, there is not one thing that we can do other than delay it temporarily - at a cost of American lives and treasure.
JACKSON Says: August 20th, 2007 at 4:06 am
First of thanks for your input, I know what you mean about the dept. rivalries we have the same thing between airborne, rangers, sf and delta everyone has there need to knows and their own agendas. Maybe it’s because I am in the military, so my opinions are more tactical in nature. My point or the point I was trying to make was Americans need to realize that these agencies, including the military need to operate the way they were intended. Example, when I went through basic, airborne, ranger and the q course it was tough, physicall and mentally. We didn’t have stress cards and at times it was rough, but I believe it made me a better soldier so in the past conflicts I have been in I have kept a level head and sanity. That’s why I felt the meddling and cuts are to blame. Meddling, you have soldiers braking down, killing civillians, doing questionable things, part because extended tours, political red tape, frustration and to my opinion a watered down trainning prior to their deployment. It’s no wonder why many soldiers can’t handle the stress. It’s hard here but it does help to have the proper trainning.
Cuts hurt the agencies because everyone was fighting for budgets so they didn’t want to share info, glory gets them paid. If we told them to simply do their job and gave them the budget maybe it would have turned out differently?
nutslikebush Says: August 21st, 2007 at 12:17 am
Don’t know how many of you read Foreign Policy magazine. I recommend it for nonpartisan appraisals of what is going on with our foreign policy and its effects. Here is an important article to read (it may require a subscription, I’m not sure since I subscribe and accessed it). The article focuses on the surge and evaluates its effects empirically.
foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3924
Zach Says: August 21st, 2007 at 1:34 am
First of all thank you JACKSON for acknowledging my point.
You are a good hard working american, Keep up the good work.
Nuts,
Zach Says: August 21st, 2007 at 1:36 am
First of all thank you JACKSON for acknowledging my point.
You are a good hard working american, Keep up the good work.
Nuts, youre right Saddam, never attacked us. But lets look at some things I like to call the So Called “Good Presidents”.
Zach Says: August 21st, 2007 at 1:46 am
First of all thank you JACKSON for acknowledging my point.
You are a good hard working american, Keep up the good work.
Nuts, youre right Saddam, never attacked us. But lets look at some things I like to call the So Called “Good Presidents”. Lets start with FDR. Great President right… Well he got us into WWII, the germans never attacked us, why should we help. We did and we lost close to 500,000 men in 5 years.
Next.
Truman. What about him. Well he got us into the korean war. Korea never attacked us. We lost 35,000 people in three years.
Huh i thought all these liberal presidents were great.
Next.
JFK. He got us into Vietnam. That war lasted 15 years and we lost 58,000 men and women.
So i dont think that it was a big deal when someone put a bullet in his head. Did they attack the US. nope
Next.
Clinton. He was good right. Wrong. He attack bosnia without UN consent and several hundred americans lost their lives in that pointless war did they attack us. Nope
So before you go pointing your finger at bush and comparing him to hitler maybe you should look into ssome of the “good Presidents”
Ps. also Hurricanes move at 11 miles per hour. they knew that it was coming and were given a mandatory evacuation. Then the hurricane hit. OHHHH NOOOOO. then we try to save people and they thanks us by shooting at the helicopters. Great.
Zach Says: August 21st, 2007 at 1:55 am
Otherside.
You act like the middle east was a calm, peacefull place before the american millitary came. HELLO. these idiots have been boming markets and killing people without mercy or remorse for thousands of years.
JACKSON Says: August 21st, 2007 at 7:46 am
Zach has some strong points about those democrat presidents, I for one because of Somolia I really have a strong disdain for Clinton.
Even Katrina, people had time to go, but they chose to stay and when aid workers did come in they shot at them, reminds me of Iraq…
Sometimes, you can’t blame the government for everything, sometimes you can’t rely on the government for everything and honestly you shouldn’t. Ultimate, people need to be accountable for their own actions. Many of the people who stayed behind, stayed to loot and take advantage of the situation. The few just underestimated the situation. I can only feel so much pity, till you realize we’ve been taken for a ride. I have lived through several typhoons were I last was, I have had to deal with no power or water for months, standing in the gas line so I can buy 5 gallons of gas for my generator(limit of 5 gallons). I was stationed on Guam(U.S. territory) so no federal aid like Katrina, no complaints, no shootings or lootings. People just rebuilt. Since it’s an island people had no choice but to tough the storm.
I am just sick and tired of seeing Americans with their hands out demanding for help when they helped in getting themselves in the screwed up situation to begin with.
nutslikebush Says: August 21st, 2007 at 11:57 am
Zach,
I think that are good reasons to have stayed out of all of the wars that you mentioned, including WWII. Why would you think that I would be a fan of any particular president? (I think that Jefferson wasn’t to bad, but I am generally anti-president.) By the way, in the US, ONLY Congress has the authority to take us into a war. No president has that authority under our constitution.
nutslikebush Says: August 21st, 2007 at 11:58 am
The founders of our country knew that war was too big of a decision for a president to make. that is why they did not grant him that authority under the constitution.
nutslikebush Says: August 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pm
So Zach,
all of the wars that you mentioned were horrible mistakes for our country to get involved in (WWII is the only one that is even debatable). We would have been much better off not being involved in any of them. But Iraq is the biggest and worst of the bad mistakes that a US President has ever made. The worst of the worst.
nutslikebush Says: August 22nd, 2007 at 2:16 am
Zach,
Did you know that there had never been a single suicide bombing in the entire country of Iraq before 2003. That is a fact.
JACKSON Says: August 22nd, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Nuts, Iraq is bad but I honestly think Vietnam was worse, we lost way more lives, it was longer, the scars run deeper and Vietnam didn’t even have oil… “The threat of Communism”, that was a scar tactic. My dad and I compare war stories, nah Vietnam was worse.
nutslikebush Says: August 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Our leaders didn’t really consider what would happen if everything didn’t break exactly our way during the Iraq occupation. It seem like they didn’t even plan for scenarios such as the one we now face. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t just blame Bush. The entire congress should have stood up to him and 100 million American people should have taken to the streets to stop Bush’s ill-conceived neo-con plan to sow the seeds of democracy by invading a Muslim country. I think the American public was still in shock over 9/11 when Bush started trying to scare everyone about Iraq. 9/11 was tragic but the media and politicians over-hyped and sold to the hilt to advance their interests. The leadership on these issues has simply been unacceptable. Why do we tolerate such failure by our leaders? Truly, they should all resign and let real leaders take the reigns. Perhaps someone taken from outside of the rank and file political parties. Republicans and Democrats; both are failures in my view. But I guess that the people get the leaders they deserve, which speaks poorly about us.
Another thing that we need to all realize is that Islamic terrorists are not nearly as dangerous as other situations to which we pay very little attention. For example, think about the 10s of thousands of nuclear weapons that the Chinese and Russians have aimed at all of our cities right now. We are literally one button press away from extinction. The Russians and Chinese actually could destroy us. The Chinese just showed that they could destroy satellites with their missiles. Guess what, if we lose our satellites we can’t use any of our weapons against them. The Islamists, on the other hand, have no hope of defeating us or even hurting us an any significant way unless we keep invading their countries, placing our heads in the bull’s eye, and damaging ourselves for no good reason.
Fantom Says: August 24th, 2007 at 12:11 am
nutslikebush.. actually should be named nutshatebush. Our leaders(by the content of it’s post, I assume it meant Bush) not considering “everthing not breaking our way” .. we’ll yes, even President Bush did not understand liberals/dems are so morally corroupt as to aid the enemy.
I do blame President Bush in this regard. After Bennedict Kerry he should have known.
The Other Side Says: August 24th, 2007 at 1:12 am
its amazing to see bush still at his fear-mongering strategies, especially when people are aware of them. at least now his tenious connection between vietnam after america left and a bush-projected iraq after we leave is being caught and exposed. this september 15th date is looking more and more like nothing new. the propaganda that this administration is spewing is neverending and making me sick. this “courageous leader” is going to leave his mess to the next administration because he cannot make the tough decision himself.
nutslikebush Says: August 24th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Fantom,
Your post made no sense. And your name is misspelled.
nutslikebush Says: August 26th, 2007 at 2:55 am
Fantom,
The greatest aid to the enemy (al qaeda) that could have been given to them was to invade Iraq. That allowed Bin Laden to check that one off his wish list since provoking us to invade an Arab country was his wet dream.
Zach Says: August 27th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Nuts, You do bring some good points to your arguments and I thank you for your constructed critisism. Fantom, When you next open your mouth on behalf of the republican party. Please, dont make yourself look like a complete jackass. You made no sense whatsoever and you made me ashamed to be under the same flag as you. Get som education and research some facts, then come post here when you can have an intellectual conversation with someone besides a greeter at wal mart.
Nuts, Bush has messed up. But name a President who hasent. We are all human and we all make mistakes.
Kolran Says: August 29th, 2007 at 2:32 am
Is buck back or not? Or are nutslikebush and theotherside arguing against passerbyers again?
The Other Side Says: August 29th, 2007 at 6:22 am
its not the same without you kolran.
JACKSON Says: August 30th, 2007 at 8:04 am
I know this might be off topic but I compared the Japan earthquake in Kobe the devestation was as bad as Katrina, the difference the Japanese people cooperated with the aid/rescue/rebuilding effort. They didn’t shoot at the aid workers, they didn’t mug each other, they didn’t loot stores and they were’nt demanding of the people who were helping them. They didn’t slow down the aid workers, they either helped or got out of the way.
So the cops could help with the rebuild effort instead of having shoot outs, same as the guardsmen, why would you pick a gun fight with soldiers. They say Bush doesn’t care about black people, but black people are looting their own community stores, what the heck are you gonna do with a 60 inch TV if you don’t even have a house.
It makes it hard to achieve any progress when the people you are trying to help make it hard for you to do your job, kinda like Iraq…Katrina was bad but the New Orleanians made it worse.
Why, why, why didn’t the government do this, why didn’t they do that, why didn’t the people head the warning and get out before the storm. Why do they have to shoot at the relief workers or rob the construction workers. So I am supposed to help you?
nutslikebush Says: August 31st, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Jackson,
I am with you on the part about shooting at the rescuers. It would have been fine with me if police or military snipers took care of the hoodlums who were shooting at the rescue workers. But the majority of the folks stuck in NO after Katrina were there because they didn’t expect the levees to breech. Consider the people stuck for a week in hospitals or in nursing homes. Why was it impossible to rescue them? I think the bad guys were a small part of the problem. The big problem was that the emergency response management system totally failed after Katrina. We should use that failure as a stimulus to improve. We should always be trying to get better and better at everything we do. Critical analysis doesn’t hurt us. It helps us get better.
I think it is silly to say that Bush doesn’t like black people. That isn’t the point. The point is, we didn’t do the job well enough after Katrina. We must do better.
As for the Japanese not shooting at rescue workers, although I am sure this doesn’t have much to do with it, the Japanese are not allowed to own guns.
WhyNotObama? Says: September 1st, 2007 at 1:39 am
Ther is a lot of obviouse racisum in your statement. Who are you refering to as “They”. Becouse Last time i checked it cops and nurses also killed people and contributed to the disaster. You keep refering to this event as proof of something….What? That disorder and caos follow disaster. That poor people may be more relient on goverment assistance. Fine I’ll give you all of that.
But in the end the truth is that if those were picturs of White babies dead in New orleans or Iraq you probably wouldn’t be complaing about “them”.
You statment reaks of stereotyping, egocentrisum, and blatent racisum…..Ironicly you did all of this without even mentioning “race”.
Congradulations I think you win the award for most covertly racist post of the day!
nutslikebush Says: September 2nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
In his just published autobiography, General Jackson, the head of the British Army until 2006 described the Bush administration’s Iraq policy as “intellectually bankrupt” and claimed that the US just had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. What do you think he meant by that? Excerpts are published in the Daily Telegraph today if you want to read even more damning criticisms of the Bush administration’s war strategy coming from the head of the largest non-US coalition force in Iraq.
Similarly, Major General Tim Cross, head of post-war planning for Britain, today said that the US post-invasion planning was naive and that Rumsfeld repeatedly ignored all of the warnings that coalition partners were giving him.
Zach Says: September 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 am
Whynot, Grow Up!
JACKSON Says: September 4th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Hey whynot, if your refering to me as a racist, i’m black you idiot. But I refuse to let the color of my skin be the reason why my life is what it is. They I am refering to New Orleanians, I think they is proper term or all of them or the people living there. Or do you want me to list all their names, you know there are some white idiots living in NO too, they includes them. I am fed up with the race issue especially when this situation has nothing to do with skin color. I am tired of crying wolf, because when a issue rises that does involve race no one will take us seriously! Think about it!
Buck Evinger Says: September 4th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Hey WhynotObama,
I guess Jackson is an Uncle Tom now, huh? That’s what gets me about liberals like you. You are the ultimate racists because you see everything through the prisim of race. There are plenty of true racists in this country. Most of them are elite liberals who get their power from the “oppressed”.
Katrina was a failure on the local, state and federal level. It was a failure on the individual level in terms of early response to warnings. Katrina was a disaster. If everything went perfect before, during and after a disaster, they would’nt be disasters. Jackson was right. He wasn’t being racist. He was just speaking truth.
JACKSON Says: September 5th, 2007 at 12:20 am
That was subtle touch at the end nuts, true Japanese people are not allowed to have guns but they have swords, lol. My point was they cooperated and assisted. Frankly, they didn’t make any more damage or cause anymore problems for the aid effort. Lets face it in a crowd of 1000 people if one person shot one round everyone would run. So even though a few NOs were totally stupid their actions affected the relief effort. Not to mention many of the attitudes of the people, sure it’s a bad situation but why take your frustrations out on the people who are there to help you, many who are volunteers. Now the people in the hospitals or the disabled I feel sorry for, but can you imagine if those were all the people we had to help it would have been quicker. But don’t forget the Hospitals or the cops that killed some people were NO residents… This situation was bad starting from mother nature to the government down to the NOs themselves. It’s totally stupid to blame race or point fingers, people just need to learn from this and build upon it. Now the jerks who stole aid money need to burn but to burn the aid agencies would be stupid, they just need to better prepair and revamp their sops.