Our Stolen Futures
Now this is not some left wing BS to try and keep the US voting for their party. Well worth the read!!!!!
Since the first Earth Day, the dilemma we call an “environmental crisis” has escalated from concerns about dirty air and dirty water to the global jeopardy of deteriorating and increasingly unstable planetary systems. Why haven’t three decades of environmental activism, more than thirty Earth Days, and two Earth summits been able to turn this crisis around?
Posted by donniedarko77 on January 29th, 2007 in Articles, Commentary |
The Other Side Says: February 27th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
why are some people so against trying to be more efficient and saving our planet? no matter if this climate change and global warming is caused by humans or a natural cycle, we can all benefit by better gas mileage or a more efficient home.
and kolran’s argument that because its cold and snowy in colorado means that there is no global warming is weak. the climate is changing and becoming dangerously unstable. look at katrina, the increase snow in new york, the lack of snow in minnesota and the unusual snow in the south (at one point this winter, albuquerque had two times more snow than minneapolis). furthermore, how do you explain the past few summers being records for highest temperature?
i understand people have different points of view, but whats the point of being skeptical of global warming? it only prevents progress because this pointless debate continues.
Kolran Says: March 1st, 2007 at 12:29 am
Yeah, the otherside, 4 paragraphs worth of information is definetly ‘weak’. I mean, obviosly your perceptions are much stronger of an argument. EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN”T EVEN RESPOND! And escuse me The Other Side, but I would shut up because I live in Minnesota and we are anything but short of snow right now. But then again, I suppose a snowstorm is not a valid argument? I do believe in El Nino (translated from spanish means The Boy) and do believe the climate on earth is changing and always will change. But, you go ahead and live in your perfect little liberal world. WHere something can only hurt you if you strike first, facts are ‘weaker’ than opinions, and you only need to look at one little part of a topic to be right. You know what? I heard Death Valley, CA didn’t get any snow! It has gotta be global warming.
Kolran Says: March 1st, 2007 at 12:52 am
“It always seems that when a democrat tells you they are a democrat and a christian, they neglect to tell you that they are also a liar.”
-Kolran Fett
shannon Says: March 1st, 2007 at 5:48 am
The planting zones for the United States were supposed to change in 2002 but did not until this year. If anyone would like to tell me why please do so. However I know why they did not change, because the Bush administration did not want to acknowledge the problem. We are in crisis mode it has a lot to do with cycles but we, as humans, also contribute greatly to it. This administration does not care about anyones future but their own. So if anyone would like to become biblical on me please try it. Anyone want to tell me why you can now plant mangoes in Houston? Now the Katrina argument is someone grasping at straws. Was Camille not as bad?
shannon Says: March 1st, 2007 at 5:48 am
And Kolran do not f my blog up with your political and religious BS. That needs to go to a blog that mentions such insanity
The Other Side Says: March 1st, 2007 at 6:43 pm
actually kolran, we are lacking snow for this year in minnesota. just because you look outside and see ten inches and more snow coming doesn’t mean that we haven’t had an unusual snow season. we almost set the record for the latest half inch of snow, not until mid january.
and my world isn’t perfect because people like kolran enjoy continuing to mess up the earth and not acknowledging the problem. the debate is over and the majority of the world is moving forward even while faced with people who have a bone to pick. how can you have an opinion without knowing some facts?
what does the anti-global warming campaign have to gain from denying a growing problem? i know you aren’t being paid by big oil companies, but i wouldn’t doubt people higher up with more influence being influenced.
Kolran Fett Says: March 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 am
All of this confuses me, I understand that shannon likes to swear and be hippocritical. “There are no limitations to the freedom of speach” and then in the comment above she tells me to stop commenting what I feel like commenting. Anyways… Global warming is a hoax, period. It doesn’t exist. We can’t do a thing about the earth’s cycles. We’re just here as long as god let’s us live on earth. And afterwards we will be judged by how we treated others, not what we did to change the climate.
-kolran fett
John Says: March 2nd, 2007 at 4:33 am
lol i think it s adumb subjects to even argue about.
Human farts smell worse then any air pollution along with skunks.
a) We havent made farts illegal lol
but seriosouly. im promoting global warming!! because it doesn’t snow in houston and I would be absolutly excited if it did =]
shannon Says: March 2nd, 2007 at 4:40 am
1. Christ died to reconcile all of creation to God (Col. 1:20).
2. All of creation belongs to Jesus (Col. 1:16; Ps. 24:1).
3. It fulfills the Great Commandments to love God and love what God loves. (It’s hard to love a child with asthma when you’re filling her lungs with pollution.)
4. Pollution hurts the poor the most, and Christians are called to care for the poor and the less powerful (Mt. 25:37-40).
shannon Says: March 2nd, 2007 at 4:46 am
“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness,” says God in Genesis 1:26 “and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. And he said to it “May no-one ever eat fruit from you again. . . . And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. And Peter remembered and said to him, “Master, look! The fig tree which you cursed has withered.” [Mark 11:12-25]
For it is written in the law of Moses, You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain. Is it for the oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the ploughman should plough in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of a share of the crop. [I Corinthians 9:9-10]
And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every man; everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the ground. [Genesis 7:21-23]
The Other Side Says: March 2nd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
i guess its a good thing that the scientific community and many other important people agree that global warming is caused by man because they can actually do something about it.
why does kolran call it a “hoax” and john dismiss the idea completely? you would think that anything pertaining to destroying the earth would be important enough to merit wide-ranging support. but i guess not. it doesn’t really matter if people disagree, unless they supress progression (Bush).
i think albert einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. so to shannon, stop using the bible in your arguments. people have expressed displeasure at your usage of the bible and your secularism makes your points less valid. i’m not sure if you’re trying to make the religious folk think deeply about their religion or whatever, but its not working. its getting old.
shannon Says: March 3rd, 2007 at 5:44 am
Well, I have seen so much of the Bible used in this site I thought it only fair that I throw it back to them. I was simply responding to Kolran saying that he would only be judged in how he treated people so I was only trying to prove him wrong. Another thing that is beautiful about this country is that I also have freedom of religion. So in short The Other Side you make your arguments the way you want to and I will make mine the way I want to.
Kolran Fett Says: March 3rd, 2007 at 10:16 pm
I really wish Shannon would quit quoting scriptures. You can quote part of the bible, but not the whole bible. It’s like taking one little piece of information, but not looking at what it said around it.
As for The Other Side. Do you live in Minnesota? If you do I am very surprised you are a global warming activist. My best guess is that you live in Minneapolis if you do live in Minnesota. I do believe in El Nino (meaning climates are changing, droughts in some places and floods in others), but I do no believe that we are causing global warming, nor can we prevent it, nor will it effect us for a very long time.
The Other Side Says: March 4th, 2007 at 2:11 am
i do live in minneapolis, good call. minnesota is a very liberal state with many global warming prevention methods, look at E85 ethanol. the only reason why we have a republican governor is because his opponent was weak.
you don’t think any of the pollution being emitted from cars, power plants or whatever does anything to the earth and the atmosphere? its not that hard to make some simple changes to ones life to at least make us more efficient. but i guess with all this technology that uses oodles of electricity or the loads of fat people that needlessly use cars that it will be difficult to change.
Kolran Fett Says: March 4th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Yes, the thing is, the other side, you live in a city, you see how people spoil the environment, and then you go out and see the lakes, and the rivers, and the forests. You go, wow, I don’t want to ruin this. So you go home and do something to stop pollution. Good for you! The problem is, it will never be enough. People will keep polluting. It’s all about greed. Any for many people, the only reason they try to stop pollution is for money, power, or for their own ego. Take Al Gore for example. I highly doubt he is doing it because he wants to preserve the forests and lakes. It’s all politics. The traditional way of life here, and around the world is dieing. People are no longer waging a war to survive and coexist with mother nature. We are booting her out. We allow immigrants into our country because they have no where to go. Pretty soon we are going to have nowhere to go. People no longer grow up on farms and ranches. They don’t understand the gears of life. Kids now days see shopping as a sport. It’s not. They don’t understand that you have to work to eat. The government isn’t going to cradle you until you die. The traditional way of life is being destroyed. I remember in Junior High my teacher was trying to get students to get to go on a trip to New York. She said it was ’so cool, you could look around a building and you would just see another’. I don’t think that’s cool. Standing in a field before a storm rolls in, you can feel the electricity in the air, now that’s amazing. With all these newfound things we forget the basics of life. God no longer has a meaning. Kids now days don’t appreciate being able to just sit in a canoe. Just to fish and watch the sun climb in the sky. They want to kill something. Not for food, for sport. They have paint ball guns that they shoot each other with. I guess they’ll be ready if our government ever falls to anarchy.
Now the things above scare me, not global warming. The earth will always warm and cool. The day it stops, that scares me. When we live in a perfect world, we may finely realize that it isn’t so perfect. Although, by that time, we may all be blind. So, sure, if you want to stop global warming go ahead. I’m not going to stop you. But what we really need to stop is the demorlization of our society. Stop urbanization. Minneapolis and Denver are the biggest cities I’ve ever been to, and they scare me. I don’t know how to stop this. I know that the Muslim way of stopping it is wrong. People don’t need to die, they just need to wake up. We need to become self sufficient, by doing this we make the world a bigger place. I am tired of looking on the bottom of everything and anything and seeing a ‘made in china’ sticker on the bottom. A great man once said ‘if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem’ and I believed him. If you’ve ever read any of the Brian Books, like Brian’s winter, The Hatchet, Brian’s Return and they made any sense to you, you might understand what I am talking about. The author is great and he describes how backwards our society is.
One example of what I am talking about is how the Twin Cities are expanding. Small communities are being engulfed and land gets so expensive that farmers can no longer pay the taxes on their farms. You now have to drive for an hour to escape the busy traffic and the developments. So, before we develop our entire country I hope someone stands up and says something, I know he will not be heard because it’s all about politics and the majority of people live in the city, but hopefully somebody will say something. Hopefully all of us will wake up.
Go Twins!
-Kolran Fett
shannon Says: March 4th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
I agree completely with you. I hate society, it has turned into a mass of consumerism. I am only 29 years old and I remember the days when I knew my neighbors and there was only one mall in Birmingham. Now there are malls every where, kids that are so rude I would rather punch them in the face than look at them. I remember where I grew up there was a huge forest behind my house and I could run and play all day long in them, now it is a mass development. I hate that the days of my youth are destroyed with more houses more malls and less wilderness. I hate what the urbanization of the world has done to our society. I hate that I live on a street that I can hear traffic 24 hours a day instead of birds and frogs, but that is where I decided to live because suburbia was killing me.
The Other Side Says: March 4th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
wow kolran, i agree with everything you said, except the learned helplessness part. we can do little things and hope that we can affect the world to change.
you did however hit the nail on the head about our society. without changing the me first mentality, trying to get people to enjoy, respect and take care of the earth is futile.
liberal parenting has reaped its horrible results and you can see it with the youth today. i’m not sure if you heard of the teens that poured ice water on a 90 year old women’s head, but kids these days are becoming terrible. college kids are becoming more narcissistic and 10 year olds are getting cell phones. you can’t spank your child for fear of social services and parents cannot say no. what is wrong with parents? they try so hard to be best friends with their children that they forget to parent. if we complain about the politicians now, what are we going to say when these delinquents get in charge?
i have no idea how to change these misguided kids. maybe change the parents or make the kids read a book. i agree a smaller government is better than big brother, but people are too stupid to control themselves and effectively make decisions. i have little faith in people doing the right thing and that faith will dwindle unless people change.
Kolran Fett Says: March 5th, 2007 at 12:00 am
anncoulter.com/cgi-local/printer_friendly.cgi?article=172
observer.guardian.co.uk/flash/page/0,,2024593,00.html
Just to name a few
Kolran Fett Says: March 6th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Okay, so I basically said that there were more important things to deal with out there and you, for the most part, both agreed with me. Where’s the argument in that?
Glad we found a common understanding. I am not as suprised that shannon agreed with me as the fact that the other side. I frankly did not think that liberals did not give a [removed by writer] when it comes to the traditional way of life. In O’reilly’s book, Cutural Warrior, he says that there are Secular Progressives and Traditional Democrats, but I have yet to differentiate the two.
I guess the topic in general is kind of confusing. Liberals want to move ahead, yet not suffer from the effect of moving ahead. They encourage lumber industries, but want to save the rain forest. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not just liberals, some republicans are the same way. It seems like the only people who really want to preserve traditionalism are Muslims, and they go to far and will die for their beliefs. I guess it’s the great flaw of our government.
-Kolran Fett
The Other Side Says: March 6th, 2007 at 4:50 am
why are you so suprised that i agreed with you? i’m catholic and do agree with some traditional values.
shannon Says: March 6th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
I am just glad that we all found a common ground! It is helpful when people unite over one common belief, that is how change happens and progresses.
Kolran Fett Says: March 7th, 2007 at 12:22 am
The Otherside,
You haven’t hinted at any traditional background up until now, you said you went to a public school and are living in a big city. I guess I really shouldn’t be judging people and this is a site for debate so this topic is moot. I think it is good that you try to understand both sides, and I understand why you approve of SSM. The problem is, if nobody argues with me on this topic, I get stuck posting on SSM again, and we all know how old that’s getting. You do disagree with my on global warming though and I hope that you will further your debate. So far all I have seen is opinions.
-Kolran Fett
shannon Says: March 7th, 2007 at 5:38 am
Anyone want to tell me why this administration has not said a word about all of the recent violence in Iraq
shannon Says: March 7th, 2007 at 5:41 am
No wait we all want to argue about moot points such as global warming and homosexual marriage. Suppose this may solve all of the major issues? I mean maybe if we all come together and continue destroying our country and banning homos from marriage suicide bombers will stop killing our troops and innocent people.
Kolran Fett Says: March 8th, 2007 at 12:56 am
No, we come here to find what other people think of issues, shannon, and to talk like intelligent people and come to an understanding about a topic. You ask why the administration has not talked about VIOLENCE in a WAR. Here’s your sign. I have already posted my view on Iraq. We shouldn’t have gone in that abrubtly after 911, we were blind, but now that we’re in we can’t just leave. Sure, it will work for americans, but what about Iraqui’s? We aren’t the only people on this planet. And not all muslims are bad.
-Kolran Fett
nutslikebush Says: March 8th, 2007 at 2:33 am
“traditional values” - tell me what that means. No, let me guess. Slavery was a traditional value. Piling stones on people that Puritans thought were witches was once a traditional value. Denying women the right to vote, another old traditional value. Burning scientists at the stake - that was a traditional value for Christians during the dark ages. The KKK is a major fan of traditional values, like lynching blacks and jews. Is that what you are talking about?
And Kolran, your earlier comments about climate change were on a junior high school level. You have no earthly idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the actual science so we can have an intelligent discussion about it. Otherwise, don’t just repeat the propaganda fed to you by right-wingers who think that you are stupid. Prove them wrong and learn some real facts about the matter.
The Other Side Says: March 8th, 2007 at 7:20 am
yeah, thats exactly what i meant by traditional values (sarcasm). nutslikebush and shannon like yelling at people and nitpicking their grammar. liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever, i guess no one is outside of the wrath of the super-liberals. its no wonder why this site has its name.
shannon Says: March 8th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I was not speaking of just everyday violence in the mideast, I was speaking of a rash of suicide bombers like we have not seen this entire war. I know that, of course, there have been suicide bombers but we have not seen attacks at this level since 9/11. I am a supporter of this war, I think we went about it the wrong way and Kolran we did go in too early after 9/11 but, these are scary people. Maybe not as scary as Russia but scary none the less.
shannon Says: March 9th, 2007 at 3:21 am
funny and your name is theotherside. exactly what are you theotherside of
shannon Says: March 9th, 2007 at 3:33 am
stupidity? No wait that would mean you were intelligent. Who said I was screaming? wow do we have new technology that allows you hear voices over the internet in blogs? Perhaps that is it! TheOtherSide, I do not know how me arguing my point of view is so offensive to all of you, just because I am gay does not mean that I am so far to the left that I do not agree with some traditional values and ways of thinking. I was raised Catholic so draw your own conclusions from that you seem to be so good at that. I have raised very valid points that no one wants to talk to me about. I believe that when people bring religion into their arguments that allows me to bring it into my argument as well. Why are you all so offended and defensive when a real life homosexual argues this point?????????
The Other Side Says: March 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
i’ve learned a lot on this site and have realized that my name isn’t indicative of my current political views. i kept the name because thats what people know me as.
i don’t think anyone said that you were screaming, but i sensed hostility in many of your responses in the same-sex marriage articles. furthermore, capitalizing words represents a louder tone (its more obvious than other words).
and your argument is offensive or less valid than any of ours, it is just getting repetitive and old. you quote scripture to prove a point or deride another person for their grammar. thats all i’m saying. also, just because people bring religion into the discussion doesn’t mean you have to use it.
i’m trying to be civil here, but you’re making it difficult when you insult my intelligence or call me names. that just shows a lazy argument and a republican tactic.
its not that i’m offended by your argument, i’m tired of it.
nutslikebush Says: March 10th, 2007 at 12:24 am
The point was, there is no such thing as traditional values. Life is such a changing art.
nutslikebush Says: March 10th, 2007 at 3:41 am
I promise that you will think that Burka’s piece on the Libby conviction is funny.
tomburka.com
Kolran Fett Says: March 10th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
nutslikebush, I am very confused why you post on this site. If I ever meet a tree hugger out in the middle of nowhere I imagine he will be a lot like you. You represent everything I’m opposed too. You said in one of your posts that you were going to stop posting here and ‘leave the idiots of our generation behind’. Then you said you were going to change your name from nutslikebush to something else, you never did. Change your name to hippocrit. You say that we are just a big accident (so your atheist) and you say that there are no such things as traditional values, but then you quote the bible. I think you fail to understand that if everyone in society thunk the way you do, society would fail to function. ‘what, Iran developed nuclear weapons? oh, well, everyone else has them anyway’
-Kolran Fett
shannon Says: March 12th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Yes, TheOtherSide it does mean that I have to use religion, I am a Christian. I know that for most it is hard to believe that I could be Christian because I am gay, but I am. I do not appreciate being called out on this when others are not called out on it. I have brought up very valid points, such as HIV statistics, marriage statistics and I do repeat these because no one responds to it. I want people to see that there are many ways to look at this, one other person brought up that marriage should not be a governmental issue, marriage is between you and your church.
nutslikebush Says: March 13th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Fett,
Your imagination has led you to a characterization of me that could not be farther from reality. I own a business. Am not a hippie. Am not an atheist (but am agnostic, because I am honest. Believe that faith and belief are opposites of one another. Faith= openness to reality, whatever it may bring. Belief=closing all options but one, whether it is right or wrong.). I studied to be a minister, surprised? I believe that you just haven’t thought through your views in any depth and therefore don’t quite get what I am talking about at this site.
jen Says: March 13th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Shannon, what bible are you referencing Mt. 25:37-40 from earlier?
>>4. Pollution hurts the poor the most, and Christians are called to care for the poor and the less powerful (Mt. 25:37-40).
Because I read through 6 different versions of that verse and was not able to construct the verse you “quoted” to stand true to how you attempted to use it.
Matthew 25:37-40 (NKJV)
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
Basically, we have all fallen short … liberal and conservative. So, as a “Christian” we should know that we are to be saving mankind and not the planet. Its doomed just like world peace and old puppies in the pound.
The Other Side Says: March 13th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
doesn’t saving the planet also help people? how can the two be independent of each other? we live on earth, get our resources from earth and we have no choice because its our only home.
Kolran Fett Says: March 15th, 2007 at 3:21 am
Actually, theotherside, almost any Astronomer would argue with you about ‘our only home’. The earth WILL eventually be engulfed by the sun. We can either sit and be engulfed too, or we can moved to space stations, our moon, mars, and beyond.
John Says: March 15th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I hope all you dumb people who
go on and on about how cars are polluting the enviroment and eat
meat, all of you are hypocrits
It has been proven that cattle farms are polluting the enviroment
far more then cars ever will.
In saying that. Al Gore, the new enviromentalist proactive captain planet of the US is only contributing to the biggest cause of pollution along with his fat ass private jets.
I like how people can say “i care about the enviroment”, when they simply no nothing about it other then what they here.
P.S. co2 is used by plants. they convert it into oxygen.
If you ask me the ignorance coming from the left is much more polluting then anything ive experienced. and i live in houston.
John Says: March 15th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
The other side, youre def. of faith is incorrect.
religion: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; “he lost his faith but not his morality”
complete confidence in a person or plan etc; “he cherished the faith of a good woman”; “the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust”
religion: an institution to express belief in a divine power; “he was raised in the Baptist religion”; “a member of his own faith contradicted him”
loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; “keep the faith”; “they broke faith with their investors”
Faith is being able to do something and putting your strength in the lord to do it.
If you were to say ” I have faith in you”
that means you trust them to do whats right, or do something well.
So unless there is a dictionary with your name on it, i doubt anything you say fom now on is credible in that you make things up.
John Says: March 15th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Oh and about global warming. years ago scientist were having a hysteria about global cooling. global warming is a joke. its all political. so they can get dumb people who dont know jack who say.
hmm omg global warming! were all going to die, i better go vote for ______ because he is going to stop global warming!!!!
haha right, but then there are smart people who say. thats impossible for one man to stop it with the fact that it isnt existing.
I’d rather vote for someone who is going to protect my freedoms.
If the US wanted to stop all damage to the enviroment it would need too:
1. limit the number of times people can visit the gas stations per year or month.
2. ban many cars.
3. end the meat production in the US
4. no more air travel, commercial and private.
5. and no hollywood mantions.
im sure there are more things that could be done.
with all these regulations it would be the US.
it would be more like communism.
hey! we could also end obesity!!!!
1.no more fast food chains.
2. no more restrausnts except for vegetarian ones that serve fresh veggies.
3. no more un healthy foods at grocery stores.
okay so maybe all you dumb people who think your fighting to save th planet. you should think of the things you are truly proposing.
shannon Says: March 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
John you are insane! What is wrong with limiting how much you drive on a personal level? Yes we all understand the cattle industry, I also understand that people like you are the ones causing the urbanization of the world. You know if people choose to believe in global warming and that we may be able to take a little more care of the earth then maybe we will have a better future and our children will also have one.
The Other Side Says: March 16th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
i’m sorry john, but where did you hear that cows pollute more than cars? it may be true, but we cannot control how much cows pollute. we can however control how much our cars pollute. but that would mean that bush would have to do something like ratify the kyoto agreement. but for some reason he hasn’t. at least states are beginning to regulate greenhouse emissions. also, there are no established mileage minimums for american cars.
furthermore, plants do use co2 and convert it to oxygen, its good you know that much. however, with widespread deforestation, plants are starting lose numbers. also, there is more co2 in the atmosphere than ever before in the last 650,000 years. so, less plants and more co2 means that argument is pointless.
and kolran, do you have any idea how long its going to be before the earth is engulfed? it sure won’t happen in our lifetimes. you’re saying its futile to even try and save this earth because of the sun. wow, these right-wing excuses are stretching far. this isn’t some left-wing political talking point, its a scientific consensus. and i think today’s science is more credible than in the past. the debate is over, we need to more forward to protect our only sustainable home.
and it was nutslikebush who mentioned faith. so i think i still have my credibility.
John Says: March 17th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Yeah alot of scientist are detesting the whole global warming theory.
It is a joke.
I think its important to take care of the earth. And i hate it when i see a forested area beng cut down.
and abuot the Kyoto agreement “Countries that ratify the Kyoto Protocol agree to reduce emissions of six greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, sulfur hexafluoride, HFCs and PFCs. The countries are allowed to use emissions trading to meet their obligations if they maintain or increase their greenhouse gas emissions. Emissions trading allows nations that can easily meet their targets to sell credits to those that cannot.
Lowering Emissions Worldwide
The goal of the Kyoto Protocol is to reduce worldwide greenhouse gas emissions to 5.2 percent below 1990 levels between 2008 and 2012. Compared to the emissions levels that would occur by 2010 without the Kyoto Protocol, however, this target actually represents a 29 percent cut.
The Kyoto Protocol sets specific emissions reduction targets for each industrialized nation, but excludes developing countries. To meet their targets, most ratifying nations would have to combine several strategies:
place restrictions on their biggest polluters
manage transportation to slow or reduce emissions from automobiles
make better use of renewable energy sources—such as solar power, wind power, and biodiesel—in place of fossil fuels
Most of the world’s industrialized nations support the Kyoto Protocol. One notable exception is the United States, which releases more greenhouse gases than any other nation and accounts for more than 25 percent of those generated by humans worldwide. Australia also declined.”
I think it will help. I do not think it will make a difference but it will help.
And my bad on accounting you for that. TOS
Kolran Fett Says: March 18th, 2007 at 12:47 am
I have also heard that cows are a major factor in global warming. Nutslikebush, you say that plants do commit to global warming, but it is minimal because we are killing them. This is not true. I believe that algea and other microorganisms that live in water produce 70% of our oxygen. So screw the dead trees. It is kind of funny. You say it would be in our lifetime that the sun engulfs the earth, but it won’t be in our lifetime either that global warming effects the human population on earth. How can you argue one of those points without admitting the other?
-Kolran Fett
nutslikebush Says: March 18th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Kolran,
What are you talking about? I think that you have various posters confused. Please read the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report and get back to me on you critique of it. It represents the best science on this topic from the top scientists studying the problem. It can be found here. http://www.ipcc.ch/
Much of the nonsense that you here on the radio and tv is just misinformation being passed along by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Turn off your radio and tv - they just make you even more stupid.
Kolran Fett Says: March 18th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Actually nutslikebush, calling me stupid is just more biased name calling. I said “I have also heard that cows are a major factor in global warming”. Okay? That cannot be disputed. That is a fact. I have heard that, it may not be true, but I have heard it. Also, almost any animal that produces gas is technically contributing to global warming. So there you have it.
BTW, please do not give me links to sites that aren’t valid. If you give me links to .gov sites I would be alot more likely to look at them.
-Kolran Fett
Kolran Fett Says: March 18th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
charliedaniels.com/soapbox-2007-030507.htm
I thought this was another good article telling global warming and Al Gore as it is.
The Other Side Says: March 18th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
kolran, i said that the sun won’t engulf us within our lifetime. its going to take 4 billion years before the earth is engulfed. global warming will have an impact within the next hundred years. the two numbers are dramatically far apart. global warming will affect our children. humans aren’t going to be around when the earth is engulfed. we can affect the amount of human-influenced global warming, we cannot control the sun. using the sun in your argument is pointless.
and who cares if cows account for part of global warming. just like the sun, we cannot affect cow farts, unless we kill a majority of them which won’t happen. we can however control human influences. those who discount global warming seem to think its pointless to even try and control our influence.
shannon Says: March 18th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Here is what I find hysterical about all of you nay sayers: What makes you think that Al Gore has shaped our ideas? I have read many books about Global Warming for YEARS now, Al Gore did not have to convince me of anything. The thing is that the earth goes through cycles period, man has contributed to this cycle since men and animals have roamed the earth. My point is what is so wrong about running our country more effeciently? Why is it so bad to maybe one day not have to depend on another country for oil? Why do all of you people think well hell lets not think about our futures, lets think about all of the money we can blow. The USA is like drug addicts, we all want more more more because what we have is never enough, no wonder other countries hate us. We depend on everyone else’s resources. How often do any of you go to Wal-Mart and see Made in America tags? I rarely do because we depend on others to do it for us. I call tech support for my computer, and guess what guys? They are in Mexico City and India. Why not use our own resources? There are plenty of people in the USA who do not have jobs because we are not self reliant. I do not get it!
The Other Side Says: March 18th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
kolran, if the earth is engulfed wouldn’t the moon be too? also, wouldn’t mars’ temperature increase to uninhabitable conditions? thats the reason why mercury doesn’t have an atmosphere, too hot.
furthermore, you use pluto as an example of other planets experiencing global warming. but you cannot compare the two planets. the earth has a thicker atmosphere along with pluto’s elliptical orbit.
you use biased sites (coulter and limbaugh) along with sites associated with companies and are still dotcoms. the information on your sites are mostly opinions (a 19 year old student is one of your sources). saying that al gore’s talking points are junk science is an opinion and not based off of facts. where are the graphs or scientific studies showing the evidence? how exactly is his points junk science?
co2 is a greenhouse gas that affects the temperature of the earth. we are using more co2 than ever before. there may be a natural heating of the earth now, but those doesn’t disprove that co2 isn’t also influencing the earth. both can happen simultaneously.
john, there are few scientists that are skeptical about global warming. its convenient that kolran uses them in his arguments. how is their science not false and politically driven? i guess the old discredit the messenger tactic is being used by republicans against gore. the debate is over.
shannon Says: March 18th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
lets say there is no global warming. With that assumption lets look at Al Gores movie; only paying attention to energy conservation measures that he talks about. What are the advantages? They are obvious. Less reliance on foriegn oil, more stable US policy, less of a need to create new power generating plants etc, etc, etc…….
Daniel Says: March 19th, 2007 at 1:17 am
After checking out this web site and giving it a more than fair chance, it’s very refreshing to see how republicans resort to almost child-like tactics of conveying their “opinion”. You have officially reaffirmed my belief that nothing will ever get done in this country because republicans are incapable of genuine communication. This website is like a little “clubhouse” for children to talk amongst themselves about how great they think their cause is. Too bad the country is going to crap… if it wasn’t then republicans wouldn’t have to be so defensive and feel motivated to make websites obnoxiously proclaiming democratic views are inferior and something to laugh at. Glad I was born with a brain.
nutslikebush Says: March 19th, 2007 at 2:56 am
Kolran,
Are you saying that the link I provided doesn’t work or that it is a hoax. If you are saying the latter, you are dead wrong. Just go read the damned report by the Intergovernmental Panel. It is not a dot gov because it is a collaboration of 4000 international climate scientists and policy makers from over 100 governments. I feel like I am debating my dog here sometimes.
nutslikebush Says: March 19th, 2007 at 3:05 am
the charlie daniels argument could only appeal to someone who doesn’t care about ANY of the facts. It is purely an attack based on incredulity, not reason or science. Unfortunately, you let one ignorant red-neck guide your thinking more than the work of 4000 scientists who have intellectual integrity and are committed to discovering the truth. It is easier to believe the nonsense that you believe and it is costly politically to do the sort of thing that Gore has done (the unpopularity of the truth about the climate wins one nothing politically, only harassment by those who are not willing to do the hard work to learn what is really going on). I believe that you guys are scared of the challenges in front of us just like you are scared of everything else. Honestly, how do you survive when you are so afraid of everything and scared to face real challenges? How did you get through college? Certainly such a challenge must have been really scary for you.
John Says: March 19th, 2007 at 5:08 am
Nuts like bush-
“Much of the nonsense that you here on the radio and tv is just misinformation being passed along by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Turn off your radio and tv - they just make you even more stupid.”
are you serious??
you thing you can get better information off of the internet. you must be retarded!!!!!
There is all sorts of misinformation on the internet.
Oh im sure there is info that backs some of your crazy theories and what not but that doesnt make it credible.
John Says: March 19th, 2007 at 5:11 am
Kolran what you say is true. The cattle industry creates more toxins and pollution to the air then cars or factories. But al gore doesnt attack that because that would be so inconvenient to his agenda.
I mean, that means he would have to stop eating meat!! and change his life =O
The Other Side Says: March 20th, 2007 at 1:45 am
cows produce METHANE. cars and other pollutants produce CO2. two different compounds that are produced differently. there you go, now stop using cows in your arguments. also, rice farms produce more greenhouse gases than cows.
prove your liberal agenda with global warming. don’t use bogus sites.
John Says: March 21st, 2007 at 2:25 am
TOS, my dear friend, methane is a gas that would contribute to global warming, and to add to that cows alos produce much Co2, out of their ass mouth and nose.
too add to this plants takes co2 and love it! infact, they convert it to oxygen, which is the gas in air that makes your life possible!!!!!!
and i don’t have a liberal agenda lol
Al gore does, and I dont get anything off bogus sites. i get it off of tv with people such as scientist.
I got the information about cows being more a contributor to pollution from a head member of PETA that studies the effects.
nutslikebush Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:15 am
Cows produce methane. No shit! Is that supposed to be news? But you seem to be suggesting that just because cows produce methane that there is no need to worry about any other greenhouse gas. Think about it. That makes no sense. We KNOW beyond any reasonable doubt that humans burning fossil fuel are having a major impact on the climate. The question is, what can we do to avoid completely screwing up the climate. Or is it too late to make any difference? That is a real possibility.
nutslikebush Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:18 am
John,
It’s not “then cars” it’s “than cars.” But it your logic that baffles me. If cows emit a greenhouse gas, then it doesn’t matter how much other greenhouse gas we put into the atmosphere via other means. That is just plain stupid. You have to stop and think for a millisecond to realize how ridiculous that logic is.
shannon Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:27 am
Oh yes and I bow to the almighty TV oh what a reliable source. Here are the basics, John, you all follow someone else: Anne Coulter, George W Bush along with so many other idiots. Why not have an original thought of your own? Is that so hard? It amazes me, not one of you right wingers have expressed an original thought. You down those with original thoughts, no matter how off of the beaten paths they are at least they are original, but have none of your own. You are all cattle being heard into this little pasture of conservatism that has gone terribly awry. How about this for an original thought, next time you all elect someone with a brain, not some titty sucking daddies boy who cannot get his dads cock out of his mouth to have time for originality. How do you like those apples?
shannon Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:35 am
wow and still no comment for my very sensible post. I am so shocked! Wow you guys are truly stupid aren’t you. Make it out og kindegarten or did you ride so many others coat tails for that too?
nutslikebush Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:48 am
John,
The link that I provided allows you to download the actual report that was produced by 4000 of the top international scientists in the world. You don’t seem to know how to distinguish quality information from trash! Perhaps that is the root of your problem.
nutslikebush Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:49 am
SHOW ME YOUR DATA!!!!!!!!!!
The Other Side Says: March 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pm
by “liberal agenda” i meant prove how global warming is part of some liberal conspiracy to gain votes. many conservatives on this site keep saying how some liberal issues, same-sex marriage and global warming, are based purely on politics. however, it seems more of an opinion than fact because i see no evidence.
anyway, liberals don’t seem to need votes or support. the last election portrayed that. didn’t conservatives use ssm to help inspire their base when they were floundering before the election? if anything, republicans need votes. maybe they need to stop lying and bush needs to start admitting mistakes.
Kolran Fett Says: March 21st, 2007 at 11:11 pm
It’s just sad how much you guys want to cover up any views that show global warming as it is. A falsity based on circumstantial evidence. So, you can’t argue with my DATA, so you argue with John’s. Nice.
Kolran Fett
The Other Side Says: March 22nd, 2007 at 9:46 pm
what is your data kolran? that the earth goes through cycles of periodic warming and cooling? or that al gore is a big fat hypocrite? that cows release gas into the atmosphere? those three points may be true, but that does not disprove the impact of humans on the earth. i’m not saying humans are solely to blame for global warming, but our technology has had a lasting influence.
do you deny that humans release large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere? and that carbon dioxide contributes to the greenhouse affect? it seems in your arguments that you haven’t disproved that. also, is that the circumstantial evidence that makes global warming politically motivated?
those views you gave were biased and cannot be taken on face value. the views of scientists or the views of ann coulter and rush limbaugh? can you deny the scientific consensus regarding human’s influence on global warming? you cannot attack the credibility of thousands of scientists like you are doing to gore.
Kolran Fett Says: March 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Escuse me, the other side, but thousands of scientists do not support the theory that humans cause global warming. The IPCC is not a scientific body. It is a POLITICAL body supported by political motives. Okay? Al Gore isn’t a scientist, he isn’t a climatologist, and he isn’t a meteorologist. He is a politician and politicians don’t always tell the truth.
nutslikebush Says: March 25th, 2007 at 4:00 am
Kolran,
You are simply wrong. The IPCC report was based on the work of the best scientists. And there are almost no climate scientists who don’t understand that humans are a cause of global warming. You may have been told otherwise. But you have been misinformed. The science on this matter is settled. It is not debated any more because the answers are in. The deniers were proven wrong. Read the IPCC report to see why. You and the handful of other deniers can keep your heads stuck in the sand and it really doesn’t matter anyway because you guys are irrelevant. You are dead weight.
The Other Side Says: March 25th, 2007 at 5:12 am
what is al gore running for? he’s been out of politics since he was veep. no one said he was a scientist, climatologist or a meteorologist.
whatever you may think about gore, you proved my point that republicans attack the sources and neglect information.
why don’t you attack the fact that co2 is a greenhouse gas that traps in heat from the sun? and we are pumping more co2 into the atmosphere than ever before? stop neglecting the fact that we are doing something to the earth.
nutslikebush Says: March 25th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Kolran and all other warming deniers. Here is a link to statements, presentations, and data from the American Association for the Advancement of Science. AAAS is unquestionably America’s most respected scientific organization and it is apolitical (that means, not political, Kolran). I challenge you to view the presentations and data here.
aaas.org/news/releases/2004/0616climate.shtml
cut and paste and insert after the www
nutslikebush Says: March 25th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Or check this out. sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
To summarize: Of 928 scientific articles in peer-reviewed scientific technical journals (not magazines etc) published by 2004 on climate change 75% concluded climate warming 75% endorsed the consensus position; “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth’s atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise.” The other 25% were methodological papers that evaluated models, data gathering methods, and analysis tools. Not a single article challenged or disputed the consensus position. There is complete consensus among all publishing (i.e., real) climate scientists on the issue. This debate is completely over and has been for a long time. But the hold outs in the conservative corner of the universe are exactly the same folks who don’t think that smoking can be a health hazard or that evolution occurs in the biological world. They use the same disinformation techniques on the climate issues that they used on the tobacco and evolution issues. They lost on those and they lost on the climate debate because they can’t hold off the mountain of truth that eventually crushes their lies and moves on without them. It is a repeating pattern. They need to start gearing up for their next disinformation campaign because it is over for them on the climate change issues.
There is a great podcast on Science Friday that looks at cap and trade as a possible free market solution to the carbon output issue. I listened to it on my iPod yesterday and found it informative.
sciencefriday.com/pages/2007/Mar/hour1_032307.html
(after the www)
or
click on Carbon Cap and Trade here
sciencefriday.com/feed/
(after the www)
nutslikebush Says: March 25th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Here is a link that will take you to a collection of scientific articles written by climate scientists that you can download from the National Academy of Sciences website. Read this stuff and then decide. You will find that it is of a fundamentally different quality than the stuff you get on TV, radio, and the internet. It is the primary data presented by the scientists themselves.
books.nap.edu/collections/global_warming/index.html (after the http and slashes. no www required)
Kolran Fett Says: March 27th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
yay, nutslikebush did some homework. I’m going to be busy for the next week, but I’ll post as soon as I have time.
justthefacts Says: March 28th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
it’d be interesting to hear a debate using strictly facts (that are cited) so that this debate could be more productive. left or right proganda seeps through many of the arguments on here. i agree with Kolran that we cannot change things, because our path in this country and around the world is one of politicized debate and opinions. the world can change, especially this country with all of our resources (namely money), but we need education to foster ideas and intelligent debate. we need a change in the media too, as getting unbiased information is very hard, as is separating fact from political spin.
i don’t expect blogs to foster this kind of debate, per se, which is why i typically don’t bother reading them. this one caught my eye because of its tendency to be civil/attempt to be factual at times. just stating that your argument may be more productive with emotion put aside and cited facts (without political spin/quotes out of context) to support your arguments. also, personal attacts and assumptions about eachother don’t foster productive debate because it makes the debate emotional.
spin and anger gets us nowhere.
nutslikebush Says: March 30th, 2007 at 2:36 am
Fett,
I will be busy next week too. Having a little cancer surgery and some radiation. May be out of commission for a while so don’t expect much feedback from me.
shannon Says: March 30th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Sorry NLB, I hate to hear that. Hope everything goes well, I will pray for your health and recovery.
Josh Says: March 31st, 2007 at 6:50 am
Things haven’t turned around for various reasons. We haven’t taken down Monstano (which by the way I’d suggest looking up thier recent crimes in India), we haven’t properly educated the people (meaning there’s always a perspective that’s too bais towards either side), and we have a government that doesn’t care about sustaining humanity.
And for some reason the majority of Americans can’t seem to realize that corporations are here to be our friends, they’re not here to watch out for us. If they cared they’d all be non-profit organizations.
And tying in my last two points, the corporate industry seems to be in the mindset that thier job is not to ensure safety, but that it is up to the government to monitor that. But unfortunately the government lets many industries police themselves. Just look at the whole GMO hot topic - no tests, no standards. We live in a culture that thinks soemthing that hasn’t been proven to be beneficial is OK to use because isn’t hasn’t been proven harmful (This is shamefull logic).
And one other thing. The environmental impact caused by humanity has turned around because of us. All of us are responsible for making the negative impacts on the world (ecologically, economically, and culturally). If you don’t believe me research where your close came from, where your food came from, just look at the empact corn is having to world wide argiculture. Please look into it, don’t just assume. And the environmental impact hasn’t turned around because stubborn hippie assholes have turned most conservatives off to the idea of human sustainability. Turning the preservation of our survival into a pissing contest, into a debate over who’s wrong and not over what’s the best course of action. Do your homework. Thoughtless banter gets humanity no where.
Kolran Fett Says: March 31st, 2007 at 7:56 pm
I agree with justthefacts, and something to add to that. Many men can change the future, together, but not if they are led by a politician. That’s what’s nice about a democracy. It ensures that we argue about everything but nothing changes.
Josh is very wrong when he says our government doesn’t care about sustaining humanity. He himself should do some homework instead of spewing out ‘thoughtless banter’. What the heck does “If you don’t believe me research” mean? I didn’t see any research in there.
Kolran Fett Says: March 31st, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Okay, nutslikebush, here are some people from the IPCC who DON”T agree with global warming. How bout that, eh?
youtube.com/watch?v=P6Wr1hcIp2U&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fprisonplanet%2Ecom%2Farticles%2Fmarch2007%2F090307warminghoax%2Ehtm
And here is a quote about the IPCC from a very good article.
“Global warming is a false myth and every serious person and scientist says so. It is not fair to refer to the U.N. panel. IPCC is not a scientific institution: it’s a political body, a sort of non-government organization of green flavor. It’s neither a forum of neutral scientists nor a balanced group of scientists. These people are politicized scientists who arrive there with a one-sided opinion and a one-sided assignment.” And if you are about to ask why no politicians here seem to be saying this, Klaus offered up an answer, “Other top-level politicians do not express their global warming doubts because a whip of political correctness strangles their voice”. Nigel Calder, the former editor of New Scientist, wrote an article in the UK Sunday Times, in which he stated, “When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” He further stated that, “Twenty years ago, climate research became politicised in favour of one particular hypothesis”. And in reference to how the media is representing those who dissent from the man-made theory he stated, “they often imagine that anyone who doubts the hypothesis of man-made global warming must be in the pay of the oil companies”, which is exactly what I believed up until I did my research. He also wrote, “Enthusiasm for the global-warming scare also ensures that heatwaves make headlines, while contrary symptoms, such as this winter’s billion-dollar loss of Californian crops to unusual frost, are relegated to the business pages”.
globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20070315&articleId=5086
Kolran Fett Says: March 31st, 2007 at 8:54 pm
You guys must understand why Al Gore backs global warming. He is a democratic socialist. Socialists want to take more power for the government. One of the only up sides to socialism is that ‘it can prevent climate changes and protect the environment’. And guess how they’d do it? Putting more regulations on us of course. In Great Brittan they are looking at charging 3 dollars for every mile you drive. And this whole thing isn’t even caused by humans. Decaying leaves contribute to it more than us, volcanoes contribute to it more than us, the ocean contributes to it more than us, and without the sun, well, there would be no us. Climate has always been changing, this is a political debate trying to win the government more power. I pray to god it won’t work.
The Other Side Says: April 1st, 2007 at 9:52 pm
a 19 year old political science student is the source that kolran sited and used for the basis for his argument against the ipcc. thats stretching far to find something or someone that refutes global warming. and using a video from youtube also seems suspect. kolran consistently attacks the credibility of organizations that at least base their positions off of science yet gives sites that are mostly opinions and are written by people with no credibility. that seems to be the republican’s way.
kolran has yet to show a scientifically based site to further his argument. again, he attacks those who spread a message instead of addressing the message. does that mean that he can’t refute the message? it sounds like it because he hasn’t talked about greenhouse gases and their affect. where is the research about the decaying leaves and volcanoes? how does the ocean contribute to greenhouse gases? is he denying humans’ influence on the world or is he just spewing out ‘thoughtless banter’?
there will always be people who think outside of the box and don’t agree with the mainstream. but if you’re going to use them for an argument, make sure you look at who they are. also, where do you get the basis for your liberal conspiracy theory? or is that just another reason to cast doubt on the issue. why isn’t global warming caused by humans? because there are other things that contribute? next time you try and prove your point, don’t mention al gore.
Kolran Fett Says: April 2nd, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Okay, that ‘video from youtube’ is from U.K.’s channel 4 (or maybe it’s 5). I have sited many more sources than one and you know it. You just don’t want to listen to science, so you declare me an idiot. I have nothing against ‘going with mainstream’. But, FYI, there is no ‘mainstream’ in science. There are facts and evidence. None of which points to global warming being caused by humans. I mentioned Al Gore because this whole thing is a political movement. That’s why you socialists site political sources. Like the IPCC. If I had to take a guess I would say that you were behind that whole thing regaurding global cooling in the seventies too. Or maybe your parents were. You guys think that if the earth temp. rises or cools a HALF OF DEGREE IN A CENTURY, that it’s the end of the world. I completely disagree. As far as I am concerned, the idea that humans can completely control any part of nature is preposterous. It’s just too bad that we are that full of it.
FYI, that 19 year old is probably smarter than you will ever be.
The Other Side Says: April 3rd, 2007 at 8:27 am
talk about carbon dioxide and its effects. that is what we can control. that is what is the man made influence. its not just about the earth rising and humans aren’t the only reason for the climate change.
i guess i do need some help seeing your “science”, so spell it out to me. i may not be a scientist, but the fact that co2 is trapt in our atmosphere and keeps in heat is pretty well known and accepted. that is what thousands, yes thousands, of scientists agree with. thats the mainstream that i addressed.
we tear down trees to make highways; pollute water; divert rivers; pollute the air; take homes from animals; kill animals to the brink of extinction. yeah, i guess we have no control over the environment. without people like gore and the ipcc we wouldn’t have anything left.
justthefacts Says: April 3rd, 2007 at 1:43 pm
It looks like most everyone resorted back to personal attacks and political spin - how sad. I’m sad to see such lack of faith in democracy too. A real democracy, like the one with protected rights and certain bounds for government as laid out in the Constitution of the United States of America, stresses accountability and participation. If the people don’t participate and hold their elected officials accountable, then the system doesn’t work. Officials do need votes to get into office, and their number one goal once getting in is staying in. Because of this, they’ll do anything in congress/state legislature if enough of their constituents complain - they can’t afford not to or they won’t be reelected. Democracy works… but only if people spend more time taking action, and less time blogging political spin.
Kolran Fett Says: April 4th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Okay, justthefacts, we shouldn’t discuss our views at all. We should go chain ourselves to trees. Alright, that makes PERFECT sense. I’ll be right back. I have to go get the chain.
The otherside, I said “we don’t have complete control” not “no control”. If you really think that Gore or the IPCC is doing anything good you need to get your temperature checked. Al Gore uses 20 times the energy in one of his mansions, than the average americans. Then he gets nominated for the global piece prize because he gave a power point to rich folks. Oh, he also has a ‘gas guzzling private jet’. And if your such an enthusiast and thing that without them we wouldn’t have anything left, why don’t you totally stop using electricity, no computer or anything. Then stop breathing to stop CO2 from escaping your mouth. I would like to see where thousands of scientists agree with that fact (C02 is a cause of global warming) and not some phony paper signed from the IPCC. The Ice Cores show that CO2 is not the cause of global warming, but the consequence of it. And yes, we can control ONE PERCENT of the carbon dioxide in the air. If we all keel over dead, I doubt the earth will say, “oh, they aren’t emitting CO2 anymore, I better cool down.” Global Warming is just a socialist agenda. They have always wanted an enviromental cause to push for a global government in which they have complete control of our lives.
Oh, here I will spell out science for you
Socialist
Conserving
Imaginary
Environmental problem (Global Warming)
Not
Cool
Enough (1/2 degree warmer in the last century, break out the sun lotion)
P.S. GLOBAL WARMING IS A THEORY, Please stop talking about it as if it has a hold in the scientific realm.
Atlas, even when global warming turns out to be falsities, the socialists will continue to search for ‘environmental problems’ as they have for centuries. They want a dictatorship where you can’t fire anybody, everyone is on social care, and they tax us for oxygen. They will stop at nothing. Kill capitalism, kill the middle class, and kill technology.
The Other Side Says: April 5th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
how is co2 a result of global warming?
Kolran Fett Says: April 7th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
The Ice cores show that CO2 increases 800 years after the temperature increases.
The Other Side Says: April 8th, 2007 at 4:51 am
that may be true, that co2 increases after temperature increases. but does that mean that a warming caused the co2 increase?
americanpride Says: April 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
JTF is right. there is a difference between educated views (based on facts) and the crap in this blog. most of you people want to talk about global warming like they are experts - and what is your science background exactly? 8th grade bio? shut up unless you know what you are talking about. make better use of your time… discussing your uneducated, biased views is pathetic.
Kolran Fett Says: April 10th, 2007 at 2:35 am
Too bad folks like that come in here with nothing good to say (like americanpride).
Now, the otherside, you have a point, but you don’t really understand the point I was trying to make. You say that co2 isn’t necessarily cause by the global warming temperature (despite what the ice cores show). And your right. A couple ice cores don’t prove something for certain, but what is proven is that CO2 does not cause global warming because it increases afterwards. Therefore, driving our cars does not mean we need a tax to stop the CO2. The earth will rise regaurdless of us.
americanpride Says: April 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
nothing good to say? you’re just mad because i’m right - you don’t know anything about science kolran! you’re defensiveness shows how uneducated you are.
The Other Side Says: April 11th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
kolran seems to be showing with his conservative comments that what worries the republicans the most is the increase in the power of the government and therefore the increase in taxes to regulate co2 emmisions. is that the basis for the lack of agreement with the scientific consensus, more liberal issues being passed?
kolran can attest to the fact that democrats will raise taxes for everything, just look at whats happening to minnesota. but that seems to be a weak excuse to avoid humans’ affect on the earth.
Kolran Fett Says: April 14th, 2007 at 2:12 am
americanpride is an idiot so I will ignore his comment, too bad he has nothing to say about our topic. As for, the other side, I would like to point out that parts of Minnesota just got 8” of snow, IN APRIL. This is rare, even for Minnesota. As for not agreeing with scientific consensus, I already gave you a bunch of folks that disagree with your ‘consensus’ but you refuse to confront them.
Stop hiding.
realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/04/is_climatology_a_science.html
Good points on that one, the weather people said it was a 60% chance of rain last tuesday and it was 70 and sunny. Then they predicted 70 and sunny on wednesday and it drizzled.
I mean, start listening to the science, not the propoganda.
heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=20938
This is from the link above
Consensus Does Not Exist
In response to audience questions after each speaker’s presentation, Stott pointed out that many scientists believe changes in solar output are the primary driver of recent temperature changes. Stott said while he personally has not come to a conclusion whether this theory is accurate or not, it is worth considering.
Lindzen added that it is misleading for alarmists to claim a scientific consensus exists regarding global warming, and “to pretend that this is settled is bizarre.”
smmirror.com/MainPages/DisplayArticleDetails.asp?eid=5312
This is from the above.
…bursting with coverage and sidebars regarding the United Nations report on global warming. The report basically served up the apocalypse: The Earth running out of water, extreme food shortages in Africa, a planet ravaged by floods and millions of species facing extinction. And you thought Grindhouse made it look like a tough world.
newsbusters.org/node/11995
Above is a great article showing how, asked to answer a few simple questions, Al Gore’s colleauges faltered.
“How delicious. Of course, here’s the really inconvenient truth that Crow and David will likely also blow off as they ignore all opinions different from their own. CNBC did a poll after the interview, and published the results at its website (emphasis added): “About 80% of viewer responses sided with Kernen, many referencing the indignation that Crow and David expressed at having to answer questions about the global warming debate.”
I bet all these viewers are funded by oil companies, don’t you?”
lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer152.html
Okay, so The Other Side, please don’t pick just one article and say that it’s source was not credible. Please do not point fingers and call me ignorant. Please do not ignore all this evidence AGAINST THE CREDIBILITY OF YOUR THEORY. We need to stop this global warming myth now and hear. We ARE NOT CAUSING IT.
metacafe.com/watch/472073/global_warming_is_a_myth/
grinningplanet.com/2005/06-21/global-warming-facts-article.htm
newsbusters.org/node/10773
As the media, the left, and the United Nations become more and more strident about a supposed scientific consensus surrounding anthropogenic global warming, more and more dissenters speak out against the junk science involved in this mythology.
capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article156
Okay, so please stop lying and denieing now, it won’t fix the enviroment.
Kolran Fett Says: April 17th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Glad that you are taking your time and thinking about my comment, The Other Side, but after posting a bull comment in The Facts On Iraq about me not posting on global warming or the war…
come on, get real.
-Kolran Fett
Kolran Fett Says: April 18th, 2007 at 2:36 am
ncpa.org/ba/ba299.html
This is ANOTHER great article saying how the global warming THEORY is COLLAPSING. And this one is by the NCPA.
-Kolran Fett
americanpride Says: April 18th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
kolran - i do have something to say about the topic: you know nothing about it. and neither do most of the people on here!! unless you are a scientist, you can’t really discuss global warming properly. as far as the other issues, your bias makes you uneducated.
The Other Side Says: April 18th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
in regards to your comment about my lack of comment, you’ve spun this debate about global warming into a call for reduced government. where is your evidence supporting your reported socialist conspiracy. you did this with same-sex marriage, trying to trivialize the debate with unsubstantiated theories.
by trying to prove your theory you gave biased sources that had no legitimacy to this debate. in your last slew of “proof” you gave the president of the czech republic’s OPINION and a “well-informed” anchors smackdown on two less informed celebrities. anyone that can spew information, no matter how true or false it is, will win a debate against people with little information. before you gave a 19 year-olds opinion and a source with ann coulter.
“For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.” i like this quote from one of the sources kolran gave because it shows the futility of a debate like this. i didn’t reply because no matter the amount of information i give, kolran will always believe the governmental conspiracy.
and i wasn’t calling kolran out because he has actually responed. i was calling out john, joy and the other conservatives out who had a lot to say about same-sex marriage.
justthefacts Says: April 19th, 2007 at 7:12 am
>
This is exactly what I am talking about when refering to slurs against eachother, they are not productive. What does chaining myself to a tree have to do with democracy? I am still trying to figure out how the two relate…
Kolran Fett Says: April 19th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Lol, I just wish americanhate would shut up about his small brains and how he think everyone else is like him already.
The other side- You basically ‘got rid of’ the facts by saying they were not legit (just like I said you would). If I keep this up I should try predicting the weather. My facts are Legit and are much better than the ones you have (which would total up to NONE). I don’t understand how places like CNBC and the NCPA aren’t legit. I guess they are not ‘legit’ because they don’t fit your viewpoint.
I don’t understand where I said that the whole global warming THEORY was a conspiracy. And I never said that I wanted to loosen the grip of government.
amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Global-Warming-Environmentalism/dp/1596985011/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-0877006-4885468?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177019480&sr=1-2
If you read the summary of this book (great book) you can possibly understand what I am getting at when I explained the socialists goals.
Socialists want to give the government more power.
Global warming scares people into thinking that we MUST stop it now and WE are causing it.
Using this ’scare’ they can promote a global carbon tax. The government would then be able to regulate how far we drive each day, and then make us pay for it.
Socialists are convinced that expanding government power will solve their global warming ‘problem’.
Now, as we all know, global warming is a THEORY. Suggesting that socialists made up the global warming THEORY would be suggesting conspiracy. I did not do this. I think that the socialists supported this because it was; convenient for them, environmentalism is one of their strongest areas, and at the time the supported it the THEORY was practically unchallenged. Now, instead of the global warming THEORY being an environmental movment it is a political movement. The new supporting ’scientists’ of the theory are people like Al Gore who would NEVER stretch the truth (sarcasm). Now everyone behind the THEORY is convincing people that there are ‘irreversible’ consequences and we must act now… by supporting globalization/socialism and a carbon tax.
The truth is that we did not cause the earth to rise a half of degree in the last 100 years. As we all know CO2 is not the main factor the controls temperature. The sun is the major factor. If you don’t believe that you must at least believe that the most prominent greenhouse gas is VAPOR WATER. So why target CO2? Because trying to stop people from ‘emiting’ water vapor wouldn’t ’sell’ over as well to the american public. Getting past all that the Carbon Tax would still do very little. We breath carbon, volcanoes produce more carbon than us, and animals and decaying leaves emit much much more than us. I hope that you can see that this whole THEORY is political and based on little or no science.
P.S. I don’t want to reduce the governments power, but I do want to stop the government from gaining more.
Wake up, smell the roses
-Kolran Fett
Kolran Fett Says: April 21st, 2007 at 5:41 pm
I knew that the Global Warming debate wouldn’t last too long, the liberals just don’t have anything but Lie’s to stand on. It is sad, at first they treat you as if you are out of your mind because you don’t believe in the global warming theory. Then when you get down to the facts they are either dieing or staring at their shoes. In my eyes Al Gore is easily compared to the likes of Joe McCarthy. An Inconvenient Truth is nothing more than a Convenient Smear Campaign. It is terrifying that it worked so well.
-Kolran Fett
shannon Says: April 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Here is something new for all of you men: Due to environmental factors the birth rate of males is on the decline. Meaning sone you will be extinct. Now do your research and come back with what you have found.
The Other Side Says: April 23rd, 2007 at 8:02 pm
i’ve said this before, but i’ll say it again kolran. you can discredit global warming all you want, but the majority of us are going to move forward to better the earth. in my mind, doing anything, large or small, to help the earth is worth it. if people stop driving gas-guzzling vehicles and become more efficient by buying higher gas mileage cars or walking, its going to have a positive influence. humans have done enough to the earth, pollution and deforestation, and trying to slow down the process or stopping it completely, in my mind, is beneficial. i know thats an opinion, this whole response is.
i don’t know how much, if any, negatives you do to the earth or if you are even against pollution. all i know is that you believe this global warming debate is based off of some plot to increase the scope of the government. from what you’ve been saying, humans have little if any influence on the world, so why should we change? my answer is that we can’t wait for the worse to happen and then change. if the worst case doesn’t happen, then we still are better off than before. do you really believe that becoming more efficient, whether it be based off of the government or personal initiative, is a real threat?
i know the sun controls earth’s temperature, but can we turn down the sun to prevent further warming? water vapor can be precipitated out of the atmosphere and has a natural cycle, co2 stays for much longer. everything else, like cow farts and decaying leaves are beyond our control, human carbon emissions have been over the top, can you agree with that? for far too long we have been neglecting the environment and have been lazy in our responsibility to respect the earth. and you started the semantics debate when you discredited the ipcc’s article regarding global warming as merely a political tool.
Kolran Fett Says: April 26th, 2007 at 1:37 am
You and your majority ‘move forward to better the earth’ then, just like all the Christians did in the crusades and the muslims in the jihad. I am all for personal initiative to decrease pollution, but I do not want everyone brainwashed by the liberal media into thinking that we need a global carbon tax in order to prevent an ‘impending disastor’. I also don’t want a ban on the things that give plants their life. No, I do not agree that ‘human carbon emissions have been over the top’ and no I refuse to stop breathing, using the restroom, or driving a vehicle. If an electric vehicle comes out I will be more than happy to buy it, but not because I am ‘preventing an impending disastor’.
My point is that global warming is a crock, argue with that or don’t. Do not turn this into a battle of ‘you don’t care about the enviroment’ or ‘you pollute’. You and your ‘majority’ can go on thinking that global warming is an immediate, impending disaster, but you are just giving climatologists and liberal media a tool to use against you.
Another great video.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5949034802461518010&hl=en
Kolran Fett Says: April 27th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
“Here is something new for all of you men: Due to environmental factors the birth rate of males is on the decline. Meaning sone you will be extinct. Now do your research and come back with what you have found.”
I got a big kick out of Shannon’s comment. Not only is she sexist, but she is gay too. It’s as if she fails to understand how basic nature works. She says males will soon be extinct? ROTFL. What she can’t quite make the jump to is that if human males become extinct (which is extremely unlikely) females will become extinct too (as if I needed to point that out). What are you going to do shannon, adopt? lol.
-Kolran Fett laughing at liberals.
shannon Says: April 28th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Kolran I just simply asked you to research that. No one cares about your personal agenda against me. I want your opinion about that. I am not sexist most of my friends are straight men, I have two brothers and a father that I love very much. It was not a sexist comment it was fact. Look at the rate of girly boys now, Orlando Bloom, Leonardo DiCaprio, half of the boys I see now. Tell me oh wise one how that happened. Look at the deteriorating Y chromosome. Look at how many women have to take hormones to even consider pregnancy. I worked in the medical field for a long time so you do not have to explain to me how the reproductive cycle works. You are such a product of an Imperialistic nation.
Kolran Fett Says: April 28th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Why are you naming movie stars? Everyone knows they lead fake lives, and yah, your sexist. You’ve stated many times how the world doesn’t ‘need’ men.
shannon Says: April 29th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Oh my God do you not walk out into the world today and see how girly boys are now, perhaps you are one of them. Me pointing out that truly I do not need a man except for sperm is not sexist it is fact! I mean come one now.
shannon Says: April 29th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
But, the fact remains you still have no answer and have not done research on the deteriorating Y chromosome. All you have done is attack me personally, imagine that.
The Other Side Says: April 29th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
just because their are feminine actors in hollywood does not mean the decrease of the y chromosome caused it. correlation does not prove causation. maybe the fact that women like their men more feminine and it sells to the masses is to blame.
men rule and are better at sports.
Kolran Fett Says: May 1st, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Lol, Adam was made first, then they made Eve as his companion out of his rib, then Eve decided to try the nice looking fruit, gave some to adam, and got them booted out of the garden.
shannon Says: May 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Is that why Billie Jean King won the battle of the sexes? Look none of you have researched the deterioating y chromosome. That is the fact here.
shannon Says: May 2nd, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Men rule what? The facts are that the Y chromosome is deteriorating, I used celebrities as an example because I cannot say “well Tommy down the street……” and you know who I am talking about. By what Kolran said doesn’t that make men the weaker of the two sexes because he could not resist the temptation brought forth by Eve?
The Other Side Says: May 3rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm
shannon, women will always have control over men. i guess its what we, as men, give up because women push a wate